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Most consumer routers will by default block a connection _from_ the Internet. They use a private address range and apply NAT to outgoing connections, so explici

Most consumer routers will by default block a connection _from_ the Internet. They use a private address range and apply NAT to outgoing connections, so explicit configuration is needed to do something with an incoming connection.

duncaen 8y ago
And that is why they implement UPnP to punch holes through it to avoid users having to manually configure routers.
corndoge 8y ago
Say it with me NAT Is Not A Firewall
- hmhhcycbtsc557 8y ago
  I believe you, but I have little expertise. Could you explain or give examples why?
  - IcePic 8y ago
    Some people would state "this box is not on the internet" while it actually is only behind nat. As soon as you have two such boxes being able to communicate, for instance "two laptops playing online together" you realize they ARE on the internet. With home-routers allowing UPNP and such things, its even more open than that. So the general idea that things will be safe from being behind nat is more or less wrong, unless you have 100% control over all possible traffic generated from the inner host(s), at which point you could have had it without firewall more or less. Will your robo-hover never phone home, never look for tuesday patches, java updates, OTA firmwares or talk to some license server or whatever? Then nat is ok, but if any of this can happen in some situation, then it is "on the internet" even if it started out behind nat. It moves a machine along the scale from unreachable closer to unprotected-and-exposed-to-everything even if it's not all the way there.
foobiekr 8y ago
Well. UPnP does end up being supported on many consumer routers. The big issue for consumer routers is, admittedly, the shoddy quality of the firmware and the fact that even on the occasion where vulnerabilities are fixed, those releases often do not get installed.
Forge36 8y ago
Unfortunately thats the opposite of my experience with the camera

duncaen 8y ago

And that is why they implement UPnP to punch holes through it to avoid users having to manually configure routers.

corndoge 8y ago

Say it with me NAT Is Not A Firewall

hmhhcycbtsc557 8y ago
I believe you, but I have little expertise. Could you explain or give examples why?
- IcePic 8y ago
  Some people would state "this box is not on the internet" while it actually is only behind nat. As soon as you have two such boxes being able to communicate, for instance "two laptops playing online together" you realize they ARE on the internet. With home-routers allowing UPNP and such things, its even more open than that. So the general idea that things will be safe from being behind nat is more or less wrong, unless you have 100% control over all possible traffic generated from the inner host(s), at which point you could have had it without firewall more or less. Will your robo-hover never phone home, never look for tuesday patches, java updates, OTA firmwares or talk to some license server or whatever? Then nat is ok, but if any of this can happen in some situation, then it is "on the internet" even if it started out behind nat. It moves a machine along the scale from unreachable closer to unprotected-and-exposed-to-everything even if it's not all the way there.

foobiekr 8y ago

Well. UPnP does end up being supported on many consumer routers. The big issue for consumer routers is, admittedly, the shoddy quality of the firmware and the fact that even on the occasion where vulnerabilities are fixed, those releases often do not get installed.

Forge36 8y ago

Unfortunately thats the opposite of my experience with the camera