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It wasn't just censorship in the traditional sense, Huffman changed someone else's content that was posted. What an insane and unbelievably poor decision by the

It wasn't just censorship in the traditional sense, Huffman changed someone else's content that was posted. What an insane and unbelievably poor decision by the CEO of a major company. Sure, the size of Huffman's change was small and limited in scope, but the injustice that it represented combined with the incredible lack of judgment by the Chief Executive rightfully rightfully caused a loud response. He absolutely should've been fired for it, or permanently lost DB access at a bare minimum. > If anything it's plagued with shills from governments and corporations. Again, accountability for that behavior ultimately rests on the executive team, no? If content generation or interaction, the core of Reddit's business, is being manipulated, who bears responsibility to correct it?

Novashi 8y ago
>but the injustice Let's chill out with the over-the-top rhetoric because few of us are paying customers of reddit and it's their database at the end of the day. Stop manufacturing outrage please
- marpstar 8y ago
  I see your point, but it's bad for Reddit, too. Can their users (and consumers of their ads) trust that posts aren't being doctored?
  - intopieces 8y ago
    A vast majority don't post, don't track a single user from one thread to another, and don't even both voting. Why would they care if the post is being doctored? Or the comments, for that matter?
  - Novashi 8y ago
    It's bad for reddit, but it isn't some kind of injustice against speech. >Can their users (and consumers of their ads) trust that posts aren't being doctored? So far one post has been doctored that we know of out of millions (billions?) of posts on the site, so reasonably, yes you can.
    - marpstar 8y ago
      But the next post you read could be the 2nd-in-a-billion(s). I could see this behavior from a "mod" who had such capability or a rogue employee with database access, but the CEO personally?? Where does it end? What threshold must be crossed until it can't be trusted? Who knows how many times it's been done. He got caught ONCE. Who knows how many OLD posts have since been slightly altered for FUTURE visitors who weren't there to see the original?
- save_ferris 8y ago
  When you run a large platform like Reddit, millions of users are trusting you with some basic and fundamental extensions of speech. Huffman violating that trust by editing another's speech crosses a major line. As others have pointed out, people have gone to jail for what they write on social media and forums. If the universal expectation that a user's posted words are theirs and theirs alone breaks down, as Huffman showed us can be done, then platforms like Reddit can become much more dangerous. > it's their database at the end of the day. and that gives them free reign to do whatever they like to content that other people post? If Huffman decided one day that he didn't like you and retroactively edited posts on your Reddit account to make you sound like a white nationalist, that would be wrong, correct?
  - Novashi 8y ago
    >When you run a large platform like Reddit, millions of users are trusting you with some basic and fundamental extensions of speech. Except that they let The_Donald and other rigid subreddits constantly ban people with opinions contrary to their group-think. Where is the speech protection there? Let's also not forget spez and other moderators routinely get death threats. If you're going to be an asshole by saying "fuck spez" or throwing out a death threat, I'm pretty sure you give up whatever "basic and fundamental extension of speech" you think reddit guarantees you.
    - wolco 8y ago
      The protection of speech is the reason you are being banned. Each subreddit has an acceptable policy and posting against that could get you booted. The good news is you can start your own with your own rules. Going in the gardening subreddit and talking about your cat will not be looked on positively. Same as the donald with whatever viewpoint you have that doesn't lineup.
      - Novashi 8y ago
        >The protection of speech is the reason you are being banned. That makes no sense. You're getting banned for breaking the rules, but lets not pretend the rules were written with the spirit of speech protection in mind. The rules exist because "we want this community with this content because reddit says we can enforce arbitrary rules in our own gardens". That can include, e.g., only having positive opinions of Trump, so we can ban all negative opinions of Trump.
- tozeur 8y ago
  It’s justified outrage. I’m assuming you think because reddit is a “silly” website that it’s okay for this kind of behavior. But it’s really not, because there’s a lot of serious discussion that takes place and the CEO doing something like calls into question the integrity of the content.
- insulanus 8y ago
  I don't agree that just because some content is in Reddit's database that they "own" it, but let's set that aside for a moment. Even if we allow that Reddit owns all content in its database absolutely, they are also making an implicit representation that what is in the database is what the user actually typed. A poll of all reddit users asking "do you expect what is shown to be what the user typed?" will come up "Yes". I imagine the outrage felt by those reddit users is not for this violation, which is small in scope, but for the realization that reality can be changed out from under them, and the uncertainty about that power asymmetry being used against them.
intopieces 8y ago
>If content generation or interaction, the core of Reddit's business, is being manipulated, who bears responsibility to correct it? Who said it needs to be corrected? Is the Reddit CEO in the business of killing golden geese? 'Post edit' scandal notwithstanding? Reddit profits from a combination of true believers, sophisticated attention merchants, and fly-by-night lurkers who keep the ad execs convinced that clicks equal purchases. They don't seem to be at risk of losing any of these.
wolco 8y ago
No one if it is a flawed product the market will decide. Each user gets value feom reddit if they stop they will stop visiting. You are being manipulated everywhere. From constant talk to your doctor in drug ads to learn this series of facts and opinions in school to vote for me because I represent you. You are responsible for filtering and learning.
- baq 8y ago
  Trained professionals, experts in manipulation and deception, wielding big data analytics vs single normal person who’s supposed to learn and if he can’t, well, too bad, the market decided he’s a fish. Sounds perfectly fair.

Novashi 8y ago

>but the injustice Let's chill out with the over-the-top rhetoric because few of us are paying customers of reddit and it's their database at the end of the day. Stop manufacturing outrage please

marpstar 8y ago
I see your point, but it's bad for Reddit, too. Can their users (and consumers of their ads) trust that posts aren't being doctored?
- intopieces 8y ago
  A vast majority don't post, don't track a single user from one thread to another, and don't even both voting. Why would they care if the post is being doctored? Or the comments, for that matter?
- Novashi 8y ago
  It's bad for reddit, but it isn't some kind of injustice against speech. >Can their users (and consumers of their ads) trust that posts aren't being doctored? So far one post has been doctored that we know of out of millions (billions?) of posts on the site, so reasonably, yes you can.
  - marpstar 8y ago
    But the next post you read could be the 2nd-in-a-billion(s). I could see this behavior from a "mod" who had such capability or a rogue employee with database access, but the CEO personally?? Where does it end? What threshold must be crossed until it can't be trusted? Who knows how many times it's been done. He got caught ONCE. Who knows how many OLD posts have since been slightly altered for FUTURE visitors who weren't there to see the original?
save_ferris 8y ago
When you run a large platform like Reddit, millions of users are trusting you with some basic and fundamental extensions of speech. Huffman violating that trust by editing another's speech crosses a major line. As others have pointed out, people have gone to jail for what they write on social media and forums. If the universal expectation that a user's posted words are theirs and theirs alone breaks down, as Huffman showed us can be done, then platforms like Reddit can become much more dangerous. > it's their database at the end of the day. and that gives them free reign to do whatever they like to content that other people post? If Huffman decided one day that he didn't like you and retroactively edited posts on your Reddit account to make you sound like a white nationalist, that would be wrong, correct?
- Novashi 8y ago
  >When you run a large platform like Reddit, millions of users are trusting you with some basic and fundamental extensions of speech. Except that they let The_Donald and other rigid subreddits constantly ban people with opinions contrary to their group-think. Where is the speech protection there? Let's also not forget spez and other moderators routinely get death threats. If you're going to be an asshole by saying "fuck spez" or throwing out a death threat, I'm pretty sure you give up whatever "basic and fundamental extension of speech" you think reddit guarantees you.
  - wolco 8y ago
    The protection of speech is the reason you are being banned. Each subreddit has an acceptable policy and posting against that could get you booted. The good news is you can start your own with your own rules. Going in the gardening subreddit and talking about your cat will not be looked on positively. Same as the donald with whatever viewpoint you have that doesn't lineup.
    - Novashi 8y ago
      >The protection of speech is the reason you are being banned. That makes no sense. You're getting banned for breaking the rules, but lets not pretend the rules were written with the spirit of speech protection in mind. The rules exist because "we want this community with this content because reddit says we can enforce arbitrary rules in our own gardens". That can include, e.g., only having positive opinions of Trump, so we can ban all negative opinions of Trump.
tozeur 8y ago
It’s justified outrage. I’m assuming you think because reddit is a “silly” website that it’s okay for this kind of behavior. But it’s really not, because there’s a lot of serious discussion that takes place and the CEO doing something like calls into question the integrity of the content.
insulanus 8y ago
I don't agree that just because some content is in Reddit's database that they "own" it, but let's set that aside for a moment. Even if we allow that Reddit owns all content in its database absolutely, they are also making an implicit representation that what is in the database is what the user actually typed. A poll of all reddit users asking "do you expect what is shown to be what the user typed?" will come up "Yes". I imagine the outrage felt by those reddit users is not for this violation, which is small in scope, but for the realization that reality can be changed out from under them, and the uncertainty about that power asymmetry being used against them.

intopieces 8y ago

>If content generation or interaction, the core of Reddit's business, is being manipulated, who bears responsibility to correct it? Who said it needs to be corrected? Is the Reddit CEO in the business of killing golden geese? 'Post edit' scandal notwithstanding? Reddit profits from a combination of true believers, sophisticated attention merchants, and fly-by-night lurkers who keep the ad execs convinced that clicks equal purchases. They don't seem to be at risk of losing any of these.

wolco 8y ago

No one if it is a flawed product the market will decide. Each user gets value feom reddit if they stop they will stop visiting. You are being manipulated everywhere. From constant talk to your doctor in drug ads to learn this series of facts and opinions in school to vote for me because I represent you. You are responsible for filtering and learning.

baq 8y ago
Trained professionals, experts in manipulation and deception, wielding big data analytics vs single normal person who’s supposed to learn and if he can’t, well, too bad, the market decided he’s a fish. Sounds perfectly fair.