5 ms·

This is not entirely true. The federal minimum wage for tipped jobs is $2.13/hour, with the employer only required to make up the difference if the employee do

This is not entirely true. The federal minimum wage for tipped jobs is $2.13/hour, with the employer only required to make up the difference if the employee doesn't break $7.25/hour in tips + wages. In these situations, the tips received between the minimum tipped wage and the minimum wage work exactly like the DoorDash / Instacart wages: they are net zero for the employee. Of course state and municipal minimum wages sometimes supersede these minimums, but they often have their own separate minimum wages for tipped jobs.

gamblor956 8y ago
In these situations, the tips received between the minimum tipped wage and the minimum wage work exactly like the DoorDash / Instacart wages: they are net zero for the employee. I'm not sure why people keep repeating this like they think it means something. The tipped minimum wage is $2.13/hour (higher in most states), significantly lower than the regular minimum wage, because tipped workers almost always made more than federal minimum wage when tips were included. To repeat, for emphasis: the federal tipped minimum wage for employees is only $2.13/hour. In the rare event that a tipped worker doesn't make at least federal minimum wage including tips, the employer is required to make up the difference, but this backstop was added to the law much later. It is the exception, not the rule, and it is wholly inappropriate to treat it like the standard case. EDIT: This is different from what Amazon and DoorDash do, since they claim the fee they pay the driver is $X, under the general legal definition of "tip", any tip paid should be on top of the $X. They can look forward to class actions and DoL investigations in their near future since "tip" has an actual legal meaning for labor law purposes that you can't redefine in a ToS.
- anamexis 8y ago
  Yes, it is indeed rare that a tipped employee would not make minimum wage when tips are included. However, that does not change the fact that the difference between the normal minimum wage and the tipped minimum wage - $5.12/hour - is made up in tips. If there were no separate tipped minimum wage, these employees would be making $5.12 more per hour in money they take home. In both this case and the Amazon/DoorDash case, there is some concept of 'guaranteed wage' which is actually backfilled by tips.
- didibus 8y ago
  I'm not seeing any difference, appart from the fact independent contractor's minimum wage in the US is 0$ DoorDash says, you are paid 0$, but get to keep 100% of the tips. And it says, if you are tipped less then 10$, they'll pay out the difference so you are guaranteed to make a minimum of 10$ per job, with the max uncapped, left to your tip potential. This seems identical to me. Waiters are paid (2.13$ per hour + tip) or 7.95$ per hour if it adds up to less then that. Drivers are paid (0$ per job + tip) or 10$ per job if it adds up to less then that.
rhizome 8y ago
>This is not entirely true. You're using the wrong "this." Waitstaff don't have their tip-wage adjusted based on tips.
- anamexis 8y ago
  That's just semantics. I was responding to this: > No, increasing tips in the jar increases their pay proportionally. For the tips that make up the margin between the tipped minimum wage and the standard minimum wage, their pay does not increase proportionally.
yardie 8y ago
The federal minimum is a floor. What DoorDash has done is set a ceiling. If someone was generous enough to give you $100 tip you should $100 + $delivery fee. Instead they’ve kept that tip and tipped you out a small percentage. Which I think is worker hostile and completely inexcusable billshit.
- anamexis 8y ago
  I agree that these practices are worker hostile and inexcusable bullshit. But I don't think your understanding of their policy is correct. My understanding is that they have some guaranteed amount that the driver will get, and DoorDash/Amazon will then pay the difference of the guaranteed amount and the tip. There is no ceiling - the driver always keeps all of the tip, but the delivery fee will modulate down to some minimum.
- didibus 8y ago
  That's not what I understood. If you get tipped 100$, you'll make 100$. Think of it as: you get to keep 100% of the tip, but they don't pay you anything extra, unless the tip is less then 10$, then they pay you the difference up to 10$.

gamblor956 8y ago

In these situations, the tips received between the minimum tipped wage and the minimum wage work exactly like the DoorDash / Instacart wages: they are net zero for the employee. I'm not sure why people keep repeating this like they think it means something. The tipped minimum wage is $2.13/hour (higher in most states), significantly lower than the regular minimum wage, because tipped workers almost always made more than federal minimum wage when tips were included. To repeat, for emphasis: the federal tipped minimum wage for employees is only $2.13/hour. In the rare event that a tipped worker doesn't make at least federal minimum wage including tips, the employer is required to make up the difference, but this backstop was added to the law much later. It is the exception, not the rule, and it is wholly inappropriate to treat it like the standard case. EDIT: This is different from what Amazon and DoorDash do, since they claim the fee they pay the driver is $X, under the general legal definition of "tip", any tip paid should be on top of the $X. They can look forward to class actions and DoL investigations in their near future since "tip" has an actual legal meaning for labor law purposes that you can't redefine in a ToS.

anamexis 8y ago
Yes, it is indeed rare that a tipped employee would not make minimum wage when tips are included. However, that does not change the fact that the difference between the normal minimum wage and the tipped minimum wage - $5.12/hour - is made up in tips. If there were no separate tipped minimum wage, these employees would be making $5.12 more per hour in money they take home. In both this case and the Amazon/DoorDash case, there is some concept of 'guaranteed wage' which is actually backfilled by tips.
didibus 8y ago
I'm not seeing any difference, appart from the fact independent contractor's minimum wage in the US is 0$ DoorDash says, you are paid 0$, but get to keep 100% of the tips. And it says, if you are tipped less then 10$, they'll pay out the difference so you are guaranteed to make a minimum of 10$ per job, with the max uncapped, left to your tip potential. This seems identical to me. Waiters are paid (2.13$ per hour + tip) or 7.95$ per hour if it adds up to less then that. Drivers are paid (0$ per job + tip) or 10$ per job if it adds up to less then that.

rhizome 8y ago

>This is not entirely true. You're using the wrong "this." Waitstaff don't have their tip-wage adjusted based on tips.

anamexis 8y ago
That's just semantics. I was responding to this: > No, increasing tips in the jar increases their pay proportionally. For the tips that make up the margin between the tipped minimum wage and the standard minimum wage, their pay does not increase proportionally.

yardie 8y ago

The federal minimum is a floor. What DoorDash has done is set a ceiling. If someone was generous enough to give you $100 tip you should $100 + $delivery fee. Instead they’ve kept that tip and tipped you out a small percentage. Which I think is worker hostile and completely inexcusable billshit.

anamexis 8y ago
I agree that these practices are worker hostile and inexcusable bullshit. But I don't think your understanding of their policy is correct. My understanding is that they have some guaranteed amount that the driver will get, and DoorDash/Amazon will then pay the difference of the guaranteed amount and the tip. There is no ceiling - the driver always keeps all of the tip, but the delivery fee will modulate down to some minimum.
didibus 8y ago
That's not what I understood. If you get tipped 100$, you'll make 100$. Think of it as: you get to keep 100% of the tip, but they don't pay you anything extra, unless the tip is less then 10$, then they pay you the difference up to 10$.