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Admins are always 100% going to be capable of editing posts on a website, after all they can just edit the database. This "proof" they have the ability to do t

by throwaway2048 8y ago

Admins are always 100% going to be capable of editing posts on a website, after all they can just edit the database. This "proof" they have the ability to do that somehow signaling danger is nothing short of ridiculous.

ddingus 8y ago
No it is not. Users need to know the conversation is coherent. Real. Reddit is not always casual chat. There is hide, delete and edit with a clear history for all involved. Touching the database changes the record of reality without leaving history of it happening. The database edit is what drove the spez controversy.
- throwaway2048 8y ago
  Again, this is always possible, its possible on HN, its possible on gmail, its possible on every single site on the internet, that is how the technology works. This isn't some kind of dark secret backdoor spez built into the reddit codebase. Immature and stupid action maybe, but some kind of scary sentinel of how admin power can be uniquely abused at reddit, it isn't.
  - ddingus 8y ago
    And again, being possible is not the issue. Of course it is possible. That it was done, and why is a big issue. And it did not need to be done, nor that way. A direct edit can make sense, and when it does, there is also every reason to communicate why. The why of what spez did is a significant contributor to the controversy. Lack of a record and no communication, until forced is another significant contributor.
  - kps 8y ago
    It's not always possible — secure audit trails can exist. The web cowboy world just doesn't care.
    - throwaway2048 8y ago
      Its not possible to build a technical system that those building it can not themselves subvert if they so choose. The argument here isn't if he should have did it, he obviously shouldn't have. The argument is about how incredibly overdone the outrage over the specific circumstances is.
- threatofrain 8y ago
  This is also the same argument people make about evidence from seized hard drives, but nobody cares.
  - ddingus 8y ago
    Well, making it without proof is a shallow defense. People do care. And this is a basic trust problem inherent to computing. Ever notice how there is often redundancy and history present? This is why. Another place this shows up is electronic voting. Lack of personally identifiable records leave people in a position of forced trust, unable to know the record is accurate. Motive plays a role here. Spez had a childish, bigger dick type ego motive. Untrustworthy. The same exact thing done to protect someone, and done with rational communication would be far less controversial. As for the hard drive, the defense must speak to motive and it must be compelling, or we are all likely to trust the person doing that necessary work. Your comparison is germane, but too simple, in my view.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
isoskeles 8y ago
A site / business / organization gets big enough, they usually start locking down database access. Even a technical CEO shouldn’t have the ability to go into a database and edit comments on a site like reddit (specifically of its size). If they want the ability to edit a comment’s body, they should have a tool for it.

ddingus 8y ago

No it is not. Users need to know the conversation is coherent. Real. Reddit is not always casual chat. There is hide, delete and edit with a clear history for all involved. Touching the database changes the record of reality without leaving history of it happening. The database edit is what drove the spez controversy.

throwaway2048 8y ago
Again, this is always possible, its possible on HN, its possible on gmail, its possible on every single site on the internet, that is how the technology works. This isn't some kind of dark secret backdoor spez built into the reddit codebase. Immature and stupid action maybe, but some kind of scary sentinel of how admin power can be uniquely abused at reddit, it isn't.
- ddingus 8y ago
  And again, being possible is not the issue. Of course it is possible. That it was done, and why is a big issue. And it did not need to be done, nor that way. A direct edit can make sense, and when it does, there is also every reason to communicate why. The why of what spez did is a significant contributor to the controversy. Lack of a record and no communication, until forced is another significant contributor.
- kps 8y ago
  It's not always possible — secure audit trails can exist. The web cowboy world just doesn't care.
  - throwaway2048 8y ago
    Its not possible to build a technical system that those building it can not themselves subvert if they so choose. The argument here isn't if he should have did it, he obviously shouldn't have. The argument is about how incredibly overdone the outrage over the specific circumstances is.
threatofrain 8y ago
This is also the same argument people make about evidence from seized hard drives, but nobody cares.
- ddingus 8y ago
  Well, making it without proof is a shallow defense. People do care. And this is a basic trust problem inherent to computing. Ever notice how there is often redundancy and history present? This is why. Another place this shows up is electronic voting. Lack of personally identifiable records leave people in a position of forced trust, unable to know the record is accurate. Motive plays a role here. Spez had a childish, bigger dick type ego motive. Untrustworthy. The same exact thing done to protect someone, and done with rational communication would be far less controversial. As for the hard drive, the defense must speak to motive and it must be compelling, or we are all likely to trust the person doing that necessary work. Your comparison is germane, but too simple, in my view.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

isoskeles 8y ago

A site / business / organization gets big enough, they usually start locking down database access. Even a technical CEO shouldn’t have the ability to go into a database and edit comments on a site like reddit (specifically of its size). If they want the ability to edit a comment’s body, they should have a tool for it.