4 ms·

AT&T sued by Sprint, must defend decision to tell users that 4G is “5G E”

53 points by potench 8y ago

JohnJamesRambo 8y ago
Words and specifications have to mean something, glad to see this. Corporations can't just change reality to their bizarre whims.
- chx 8y ago
  Could someone please sue Intel (possibly together with Lenovo, HP, Dell and god knows who else) for gimping the PCI Express over Thunderbolt 3 transfer speed to 22 gbit/s and yet having everyone and their dog advertise it as 40 gbit/s?? To begin with, they are feeding only four PCI Express 3.0 lanes into the controller so even without these strange limitation it would never be more than 32 gbit/s -- but it's 22. (Yes, the connector, the full bus can carry 40 gbit/s but it will only do so if you are using monitor(s) requiring more video bandwidth than a single 4K @ 60 Hz.) https://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/zbook-x360/index.html https://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/zbook-x360/index.html > Experience faster file upload and transfer speeds with Thunderbolt™ 3 - faster than USB 3.0 at 40 Gbps. https://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p/ThinkPad-P72/p/22WS2WPWP72 https://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p/Thi... > With dual Thunderbolt™ 3 ports, you can simultaneously use a 4K display and high-performance storage device—and tap blazingly-fast speeds at up to 40 Gbps. These are factually false, many on the egpu.io measured it and it's 22gbps and Figure 7 in the Technology Brief clearly shows it as well. https://thunderbolttechnology.net/sites/default/files/Thunderbolt3_TechBrief_FINAL.pdf https://thunderbolttechnology.net/sites/default/files/Thunde... Targus admits so: https://us.targus.com/blogs/discover-targus/thunderbolt-3-usb-type-c https://us.targus.com/blogs/discover-targus/thunderbolt-3-us... > at full Thunderbolt 3 data bandwidth of 22 Gbps. Dell admits too but you need to look very hard: https://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/19/sln307875/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-maximum-data-transfer-rate-on-dell-systems?lang=en https://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/19/sln307875/thun... > Thunderbolt 3 may only reach a maximum data transfer rate of around 7 to 22Gbps even though it is advertised with 40Gbps > Although Thunderbolt 3 is advertised with a bidirectional total data transfer rate of 40Gbps, simple data transfer like networking data or storage data are limited to a total of 22Gbps as per the official Thunderbolt 3 specifications. Why do you need to look hard? Because everywhere else, even in the single article linked from the above confession: https://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/19/qna44089/thunderbolt-3-40gbps-data-transfer-rate?lang=en https://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/19/qna44089/thund... > Systems with the 2 lane design will only support up to 20gbps data transfers over PCIe devices such as external hard drives or video cards that use PCIe. Systems with 4 lane design will support up to 40gbps of data transfer over PCIe depending on the device in use.
pxeboot 8y ago
Definitely feels like false advertising from a consumer standpoint.
- bitxbitxbitcoin 8y ago
  Unfortunately his isn’t the first time this has happened and it won’t be the last.
liquidise 8y ago
> “By making the false claim that it is offering a 5G wireless network where it offers only a 4G LTE Advanced network.” Well and clearly put. While the legal proceedings are sure to be convoluted, I cannot think of a single layperson who would see a 5Ge ad and think “oh this is just 4G”. Indeed even as a current technologist I didn’t know this until some HN comments weeks ago.
- rasengan 8y ago
  I agree. It reminds me of Tesla calling their system autopilot for whatever reason that benefited them, and then turning around and saying it’s not autopilot after people die.
  - derrikcurran 8y ago
    Its not the same thing. "Autopilot" is not the name of an established standard. also, from Wikipedia: An autopilot is a system used to control the trajectory of an aircraft without constant 'hands-on' control by a human operator being required. Autopilots do not replace human operators, but instead they assist them in controlling the aircraft. Sounds very similar to what Tesla's feature does.
- jfim 8y ago
  The US carriers were offering "4G" LTE for a while, even though those were considered 3.5G/3.9G at the time.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- zamadatix 8y ago
  By your casual interchange of "4G LTE" and "4G" it just goes to prove it's been done before, nothing happened, and the public went with the marketing. "4G LTE" is not "4G" just the same as "5Ge" is not "5G". The latter of each pair are ITU standards, the former are just marketing terms that sound like ITU standards.

53 points by potench 8y ago

Words and specifications have to mean something, glad to see this. Corporations can't just change reality to their bizarre whims.

chx 8y ago
Could someone please sue Intel (possibly together with Lenovo, HP, Dell and god knows who else) for gimping the PCI Express over Thunderbolt 3 transfer speed to 22 gbit/s and yet having everyone and their dog advertise it as 40 gbit/s?? To begin with, they are feeding only four PCI Express 3.0 lanes into the controller so even without these strange limitation it would never be more than 32 gbit/s -- but it's 22. (Yes, the connector, the full bus can carry 40 gbit/s but it will only do so if you are using monitor(s) requiring more video bandwidth than a single 4K @ 60 Hz.) https://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/zbook-x360/index.html https://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/zbook-x360/index.html > Experience faster file upload and transfer speeds with Thunderbolt™ 3 - faster than USB 3.0 at 40 Gbps. https://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p/ThinkPad-P72/p/22WS2WPWP72 https://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p/Thi... > With dual Thunderbolt™ 3 ports, you can simultaneously use a 4K display and high-performance storage device—and tap blazingly-fast speeds at up to 40 Gbps. These are factually false, many on the egpu.io measured it and it's 22gbps and Figure 7 in the Technology Brief clearly shows it as well. https://thunderbolttechnology.net/sites/default/files/Thunderbolt3_TechBrief_FINAL.pdf https://thunderbolttechnology.net/sites/default/files/Thunde... Targus admits so: https://us.targus.com/blogs/discover-targus/thunderbolt-3-usb-type-c https://us.targus.com/blogs/discover-targus/thunderbolt-3-us... > at full Thunderbolt 3 data bandwidth of 22 Gbps. Dell admits too but you need to look very hard: https://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/19/sln307875/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-maximum-data-transfer-rate-on-dell-systems?lang=en https://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/19/sln307875/thun... > Thunderbolt 3 may only reach a maximum data transfer rate of around 7 to 22Gbps even though it is advertised with 40Gbps > Although Thunderbolt 3 is advertised with a bidirectional total data transfer rate of 40Gbps, simple data transfer like networking data or storage data are limited to a total of 22Gbps as per the official Thunderbolt 3 specifications. Why do you need to look hard? Because everywhere else, even in the single article linked from the above confession: https://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/19/qna44089/thunderbolt-3-40gbps-data-transfer-rate?lang=en https://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/19/qna44089/thund... > Systems with the 2 lane design will only support up to 20gbps data transfers over PCIe devices such as external hard drives or video cards that use PCIe. Systems with 4 lane design will support up to 40gbps of data transfer over PCIe depending on the device in use.

pxeboot 8y ago

Definitely feels like false advertising from a consumer standpoint.

bitxbitxbitcoin 8y ago
Unfortunately his isn’t the first time this has happened and it won’t be the last.

liquidise 8y ago

> “By making the false claim that it is offering a 5G wireless network where it offers only a 4G LTE Advanced network.” Well and clearly put. While the legal proceedings are sure to be convoluted, I cannot think of a single layperson who would see a 5Ge ad and think “oh this is just 4G”. Indeed even as a current technologist I didn’t know this until some HN comments weeks ago.

rasengan 8y ago
I agree. It reminds me of Tesla calling their system autopilot for whatever reason that benefited them, and then turning around and saying it’s not autopilot after people die.
- derrikcurran 8y ago
  Its not the same thing. "Autopilot" is not the name of an established standard. also, from Wikipedia: An autopilot is a system used to control the trajectory of an aircraft without constant 'hands-on' control by a human operator being required. Autopilots do not replace human operators, but instead they assist them in controlling the aircraft. Sounds very similar to what Tesla's feature does.
jfim 8y ago
The US carriers were offering "4G" LTE for a while, even though those were considered 3.5G/3.9G at the time.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
zamadatix 8y ago
By your casual interchange of "4G LTE" and "4G" it just goes to prove it's been done before, nothing happened, and the public went with the marketing. "4G LTE" is not "4G" just the same as "5Ge" is not "5G". The latter of each pair are ITU standards, the former are just marketing terms that sound like ITU standards.