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Because one is a website about cats, and one is an authoritarian nation... I’m relatively certain that the reddit admins are not going to jail me as a pawn in

Because one is a website about cats, and one is an authoritarian nation... I’m relatively certain that the reddit admins are not going to jail me as a pawn in a political game, or as a punishment for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Nor will they ban me from traveling by plane as a punishment for having low karma.

luckylion 8y ago
Reddit admins will indeed not sentence you to 20 years in a labor camp for disagreeing with them politically. But that's because they can't, not because they wouldn't. Reddit would fit perfectly well into the Chinese internet. Just tweak the "permissible opinions" a bit and off you go, the rest can remain unchanged.
- chillacy 8y ago
  The configuration of those permissible bits is exactly the difference between two cultures, no? It’s not like the US is a free speech anarchist haven either, certain speech or images land you in jail here as well. But saying it’s all the same reminds me of a quote from Dr Manhattan about how a living person and dead person have exactly the same number of atoms before and after death, what’s the big deal?
  - luckylion 8y ago
    > The configuration of those permissible bits is exactly the difference between two cultures, no? Sure. And that can be changed in an instant. Just put "Tiananmen Square", "Tibet" etc on your black list and the site can operate the exact same way it does today. Most users won't even notice ("it's a site to share cat pictures, why would I talk about politics"), others will not care ("oh well, those guys probably deserved it") and the rest will move to voat (or start something new, I don't know how well Chinese critics and racists mix).
    - chillacy 8y ago
      Sure, laws can be changed relatively fast as well. But what's your pitch here? Is it that we're all just on a sliding scale of censorship? Or that we shouldn't censor at all and truly embody our ideal of "freedom of speech"?
      - luckylion 8y ago
        My point is that reddit is set up to be run as an authoritarian system, by people who obviously believe in authoritarianism. Users who like reddit but are afraid of a company from an authoritarian state investing sounds silly to me. Similarly silly: when Google fans get scared about video cameras because it feels like surveillance. My gut feeling is that it's a reaction to propaganda (for lack of a better word; I'm not suggesting that there's a concerted effort). China has been associated with a surveillance state, and mentioning China or large chinese companies will send people into a frenzy because they don't want a police state. That their favorite website runs on the same ideology, that they are constantly under surveillance by corporations and their own government: ignored. As for "laws can be changed": that's why I'm a fan of only implementing things that you feel comfortable giving control over to your worst political enemy.
        chillacy 8y ago
        Yea I hear you, the world would be a better place if laws were passed with that in mind. I do think some degree of tooling will be necessary to screen content on a site like reddit to remain compliant with US laws. If that begins the slippery slope then I don't think there's an escape.

luckylion 8y ago

Reddit admins will indeed not sentence you to 20 years in a labor camp for disagreeing with them politically. But that's because they can't, not because they wouldn't. Reddit would fit perfectly well into the Chinese internet. Just tweak the "permissible opinions" a bit and off you go, the rest can remain unchanged.

chillacy 8y ago
The configuration of those permissible bits is exactly the difference between two cultures, no? It’s not like the US is a free speech anarchist haven either, certain speech or images land you in jail here as well. But saying it’s all the same reminds me of a quote from Dr Manhattan about how a living person and dead person have exactly the same number of atoms before and after death, what’s the big deal?
- luckylion 8y ago
  > The configuration of those permissible bits is exactly the difference between two cultures, no? Sure. And that can be changed in an instant. Just put "Tiananmen Square", "Tibet" etc on your black list and the site can operate the exact same way it does today. Most users won't even notice ("it's a site to share cat pictures, why would I talk about politics"), others will not care ("oh well, those guys probably deserved it") and the rest will move to voat (or start something new, I don't know how well Chinese critics and racists mix).
  - chillacy 8y ago
    Sure, laws can be changed relatively fast as well. But what's your pitch here? Is it that we're all just on a sliding scale of censorship? Or that we shouldn't censor at all and truly embody our ideal of "freedom of speech"?
    - luckylion 8y ago
      My point is that reddit is set up to be run as an authoritarian system, by people who obviously believe in authoritarianism. Users who like reddit but are afraid of a company from an authoritarian state investing sounds silly to me. Similarly silly: when Google fans get scared about video cameras because it feels like surveillance. My gut feeling is that it's a reaction to propaganda (for lack of a better word; I'm not suggesting that there's a concerted effort). China has been associated with a surveillance state, and mentioning China or large chinese companies will send people into a frenzy because they don't want a police state. That their favorite website runs on the same ideology, that they are constantly under surveillance by corporations and their own government: ignored. As for "laws can be changed": that's why I'm a fan of only implementing things that you feel comfortable giving control over to your worst political enemy.
      - chillacy 8y ago
        Yea I hear you, the world would be a better place if laws were passed with that in mind. I do think some degree of tooling will be necessary to screen content on a site like reddit to remain compliant with US laws. If that begins the slippery slope then I don't think there's an escape.