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No New Yorker was happy about the subsidies, especially since it was x4 the amount of the one Amazon got in D.C. Subway is running at full capacity, and real e

No New Yorker was happy about the subsidies, especially since it was x4 the amount of the one Amazon got in D.C. Subway is running at full capacity, and real estate prices are already high. It was seen as a bad deal, and new yorkers just don't have a positive view of amazon. When your restaurant is already almost at full capacity, there is no need to lose money on a groupon campaign. I don't think anybody would have complained if these subsidies were done somewhere upstate, where the jobs are truly needed.

tolstoy77 8y ago
I'm not a new yorker. But I'm a 100% a fan of AOC and fully agree that Amazon has no business ruining NYC and causing gentrification to LIC. I can't help but feel for the families, businesses and communities this will disrupt.
throwawaysea 8y ago
Per this poll from 2 days ago, 69% of the public approves of HQ2 coming to NY, with support across all demographic groups. https://harrisx.com/2019/02/new-poll-shows-overwhelming-supp.. https://harrisx.com/2019/02/new-poll-shows-overwhelming-supp.... ------ Other key findings from the poll include: 85% of New York voters believe that its very or somewhat likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will create good jobs for New Yorkers and Queens residents 77% of New York voters believe that its very or somewhat likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will improve the economy of New York City 70% of New York voters believe that its very or somewhat likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will raise New York City property values 68% of New York voters believe that its very or somewhat likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will help make New York City an East Coast tech hub 58% of New York voters believe that its very or somewhat likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will raise the tax revenues New York needs for education, transportation, and other vital services 55% of New York voters believe that its very or somewhat likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will create new opportunities for local and small businesses
- mjfl 8y ago
  You mean to tell me that the Hacker News commenter you replied to is clueless and completely out of touch? No way!
  - ardit33 8y ago
    Read my answer again. I said people are not unhappy about Amazon moving here (after all, they already have offices here), but for the large subsidies Cuomo conceded to them. The questions on that survey don't mention any thing about subsidies... period. Change it to: "Do you believe Amazon should be given 3B subsidies to come to NYC?" and the replies will look very different...
    - ojbyrne 8y ago
      Since you asked: “nobody is denying that a large company creating jobs, is a bad thing” I think you meant that “nobody is asserting that a large company creating jobs, is a bad thing”
  - indalo 8y ago
    Pretty toxic behavior.
  - hopfscotch 8y ago
    It's so funny, people here seem to think HN is so enlightened and intelligent.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - throwawaymath 8y ago
    Yikes, was that really necessary? Have you never been wrong on the internet before? What's the point of being so condescending to people? This is not a constructive way to correct someone.
    - mjfl 8y ago
      It's not as much a correction than it is a response to a general trend of HN commenters making incorrect assertions while remaining unassailably confident in their opinions and their moral superiority on several issues. In general, confident wrong people grind my gears a lot, especially when it comes to issues that it's common to get preachy about, like "big business", "billionaires", etc.
- ardit33 8y ago
  That's right.... nobody is denying that a large company creating jobs, is a bad thing. People are upset for the large subsidies. the "Do you believe NYC should give 3B+ subsidies to Amazon" Or, "Do you believe NYC giving 4 times the subsidies to Amazon, compared to D.C., is a good deal?.? are missing. Put them into the questionnaire, and see how the response rates change.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 8y ago
    I would say, of people I've met that voice reluctance over the deal, all of them have been over the issues you mentioned, except the subsidies (i.e. gentrification, housing affordability, oversubscription of public services). I haven't spoken to anyone in person who said anything negative about the subsidies.
  - benregenspan 8y ago
    And indeed, the full survey results (linked on the bottom of https://harrisx.com/2019/02/new-poll-shows-overwhelming-support-among-new-yorkers-and-queens-residents-for-amazons-new-headquarters/ https://harrisx.com/2019/02/new-poll-shows-overwhelming-supp...) show that once they were asked about subsidies, most respondents (and 74% of those with an opinion on the subject) thought they were too high. (That's without being prompted with the specific $ amount of the subsidies, as far as I can see. If they had mentioned the $4 billion figure, the response might have been even more overwhelming.)
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
  Cherry picking. Also from the poll: a majority of New York registered voters also see it as likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will increase the cost of housing in New York City and complicate public transit and transportation, among other issues. This seems to support the parent’s general claim about the subway etc. Did the poll ask if New Yorkers were happy with the subsidies? The poll question: Do you approve or disapprove of Amazon locating one of its new headquarters in Long Island City in Queens? is at least vastly incomplete. I don’t know the specifics, but it seems fair to me the question should be something more like: do you approve or disapprove of the city spending $x of taxpayers money on a deal to bring Amazon to NYC?
- typon 8y ago
  I would like to remind readers that Amazon funded this poll. Take from that what you will.
  - boron1006 8y ago
    This is a better one, and even includes questions on how people feel about subsidies: https://poll.qu.edu/new-york-city/release-detail?ReleaseID=2589 https://poll.qu.edu/new-york-city/release-detail?ReleaseID=2...
melling 8y ago
When do you think they can fix the subway? It has been neglected for decades. It handles about 5.5 million people a day. An extra 25,000 people can’t be accommodated? Everytime I hear someone complain about this I wonder if they consider how many cars will not be needed during rush hour because Amazon chose NYC. Hey, what do you think about the massive spending plan the Democrats are working on to solve climate change? Do people even try to connect the dots? Newark to Long Island City is about 15 miles. Plenty of affordable real estate there. With a little urban planning and better mass transit, NYC could handle 10 Amazons.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 8y ago
  Having more people in NYC is great for climate change, because the urban environment is a lot less carbon intensive. In what other city could Amazon locate where fewer net cars would be added to the roads?
xvilka 8y ago
Well, Amazon has nothing to do with the city neglect of subway and other public transportation development. See an examples of Tokyo, Shanghai, Beijing (all of them are more populous than NYC), where they build new stations, new roads for public transit, optimize old ones, etc. It is always sad to see the city of planetary importance struggling to maintain itself.
- rtkwe 8y ago
  Part of it is New York's system is much older than the rest of your examples, Tokyo didn't really expand beyond a single tunnel till 50s-60s, Beijing opened in the 60s and Shanghai only started construction in the mid 80s. Then on top of that the city of New York isn't actually in charge fully so (like just happened) if they try to do something disruptive but critical the governor can come and derail the whole plan. I don't mean to say it excuses the mismanagement but it does explain a lot of the problems. Also it's not like they're not building new stuff in 2017 the second avenue subway opened with 3 new stations.
boron1006 8y ago
Weren't most of the subsidies through the already existing "Excelsior program"? https://esd.ny.gov/sites/default/files/Excelsior_Overview_2017.pdf https://esd.ny.gov/sites/default/files/Excelsior_Overview_20... I'm just confused about what people want. The program was long derided for creating too few jobs: https://www.lohud.com/story/news/politics/politics-on-the-hudson/2017/06/07/new-york-job-creation-investigation-big-break-for-business/101745402/ https://www.lohud.com/story/news/politics/politics-on-the-hu... Now that it's Amazon, it's creating too many jobs and (therefore) costing too much money? I don't support tax subsidies in general, but the program was already signed into law, you can't just change the rules that you set yourself just because you realize in hindsight it's a bad deal. Honestly, the people of NYS elected Cuomo twice, they should have to live with the consequences.

tolstoy77 8y ago

I'm not a new yorker. But I'm a 100% a fan of AOC and fully agree that Amazon has no business ruining NYC and causing gentrification to LIC. I can't help but feel for the families, businesses and communities this will disrupt.

throwawaysea 8y ago

Per this poll from 2 days ago, 69% of the public approves of HQ2 coming to NY, with support across all demographic groups. https://harrisx.com/2019/02/new-poll-shows-overwhelming-supp.. https://harrisx.com/2019/02/new-poll-shows-overwhelming-supp.... ------ Other key findings from the poll include: 85% of New York voters believe that its very or somewhat likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will create good jobs for New Yorkers and Queens residents 77% of New York voters believe that its very or somewhat likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will improve the economy of New York City 70% of New York voters believe that its very or somewhat likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will raise New York City property values 68% of New York voters believe that its very or somewhat likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will help make New York City an East Coast tech hub 58% of New York voters believe that its very or somewhat likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will raise the tax revenues New York needs for education, transportation, and other vital services 55% of New York voters believe that its very or somewhat likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will create new opportunities for local and small businesses

mjfl 8y ago
You mean to tell me that the Hacker News commenter you replied to is clueless and completely out of touch? No way!
- ardit33 8y ago
  Read my answer again. I said people are not unhappy about Amazon moving here (after all, they already have offices here), but for the large subsidies Cuomo conceded to them. The questions on that survey don't mention any thing about subsidies... period. Change it to: "Do you believe Amazon should be given 3B subsidies to come to NYC?" and the replies will look very different...
  - ojbyrne 8y ago
    Since you asked: “nobody is denying that a large company creating jobs, is a bad thing” I think you meant that “nobody is asserting that a large company creating jobs, is a bad thing”
- indalo 8y ago
  Pretty toxic behavior.
- hopfscotch 8y ago
  It's so funny, people here seem to think HN is so enlightened and intelligent.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- throwawaymath 8y ago
  Yikes, was that really necessary? Have you never been wrong on the internet before? What's the point of being so condescending to people? This is not a constructive way to correct someone.
  - mjfl 8y ago
    It's not as much a correction than it is a response to a general trend of HN commenters making incorrect assertions while remaining unassailably confident in their opinions and their moral superiority on several issues. In general, confident wrong people grind my gears a lot, especially when it comes to issues that it's common to get preachy about, like "big business", "billionaires", etc.
ardit33 8y ago
That's right.... nobody is denying that a large company creating jobs, is a bad thing. People are upset for the large subsidies. the "Do you believe NYC should give 3B+ subsidies to Amazon" Or, "Do you believe NYC giving 4 times the subsidies to Amazon, compared to D.C., is a good deal?.? are missing. Put them into the questionnaire, and see how the response rates change.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 8y ago
  I would say, of people I've met that voice reluctance over the deal, all of them have been over the issues you mentioned, except the subsidies (i.e. gentrification, housing affordability, oversubscription of public services). I haven't spoken to anyone in person who said anything negative about the subsidies.
- benregenspan 8y ago
  And indeed, the full survey results (linked on the bottom of https://harrisx.com/2019/02/new-poll-shows-overwhelming-support-among-new-yorkers-and-queens-residents-for-amazons-new-headquarters/ https://harrisx.com/2019/02/new-poll-shows-overwhelming-supp...) show that once they were asked about subsidies, most respondents (and 74% of those with an opinion on the subject) thought they were too high. (That's without being prompted with the specific $ amount of the subsidies, as far as I can see. If they had mentioned the $4 billion figure, the response might have been even more overwhelming.)
TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
Cherry picking. Also from the poll: a majority of New York registered voters also see it as likely that Amazon’s HQ2 will increase the cost of housing in New York City and complicate public transit and transportation, among other issues. This seems to support the parent’s general claim about the subway etc. Did the poll ask if New Yorkers were happy with the subsidies? The poll question: Do you approve or disapprove of Amazon locating one of its new headquarters in Long Island City in Queens? is at least vastly incomplete. I don’t know the specifics, but it seems fair to me the question should be something more like: do you approve or disapprove of the city spending $x of taxpayers money on a deal to bring Amazon to NYC?
typon 8y ago
I would like to remind readers that Amazon funded this poll. Take from that what you will.
- boron1006 8y ago
  This is a better one, and even includes questions on how people feel about subsidies: https://poll.qu.edu/new-york-city/release-detail?ReleaseID=2589 https://poll.qu.edu/new-york-city/release-detail?ReleaseID=2...

melling 8y ago

When do you think they can fix the subway? It has been neglected for decades. It handles about 5.5 million people a day. An extra 25,000 people can’t be accommodated? Everytime I hear someone complain about this I wonder if they consider how many cars will not be needed during rush hour because Amazon chose NYC. Hey, what do you think about the massive spending plan the Democrats are working on to solve climate change? Do people even try to connect the dots? Newark to Long Island City is about 15 miles. Plenty of affordable real estate there. With a little urban planning and better mass transit, NYC could handle 10 Amazons.

asdfasgasdgasdg 8y ago
Having more people in NYC is great for climate change, because the urban environment is a lot less carbon intensive. In what other city could Amazon locate where fewer net cars would be added to the roads?

xvilka 8y ago

Well, Amazon has nothing to do with the city neglect of subway and other public transportation development. See an examples of Tokyo, Shanghai, Beijing (all of them are more populous than NYC), where they build new stations, new roads for public transit, optimize old ones, etc. It is always sad to see the city of planetary importance struggling to maintain itself.

rtkwe 8y ago
Part of it is New York's system is much older than the rest of your examples, Tokyo didn't really expand beyond a single tunnel till 50s-60s, Beijing opened in the 60s and Shanghai only started construction in the mid 80s. Then on top of that the city of New York isn't actually in charge fully so (like just happened) if they try to do something disruptive but critical the governor can come and derail the whole plan. I don't mean to say it excuses the mismanagement but it does explain a lot of the problems. Also it's not like they're not building new stuff in 2017 the second avenue subway opened with 3 new stations.

boron1006 8y ago

Weren't most of the subsidies through the already existing "Excelsior program"? https://esd.ny.gov/sites/default/files/Excelsior_Overview_2017.pdf https://esd.ny.gov/sites/default/files/Excelsior_Overview_20... I'm just confused about what people want. The program was long derided for creating too few jobs: https://www.lohud.com/story/news/politics/politics-on-the-hudson/2017/06/07/new-york-job-creation-investigation-big-break-for-business/101745402/ https://www.lohud.com/story/news/politics/politics-on-the-hu... Now that it's Amazon, it's creating too many jobs and (therefore) costing too much money? I don't support tax subsidies in general, but the program was already signed into law, you can't just change the rules that you set yourself just because you realize in hindsight it's a bad deal. Honestly, the people of NYS elected Cuomo twice, they should have to live with the consequences.