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> CAC card > CAC card > CAC cards This is so annoying. It's like saying ATM machine, or PIN number. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome https://en.wi

> CAC card > CAC card > CAC cards This is so annoying. It's like saying ATM machine, or PIN number. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome

dwringer 8y ago
I think in many contexts there's a case to be made for the redundancy. For instance, at a checkout counter where a customer or cashier may have a pen in hand, may be wearing one or more pins, and is subsequently prompted for a PIN - saying "PIN number" immediately resolves any possible ambiguity. "ATM machine" similarly disambiguates the machine from the abbreviation for "at the moment". "CAC" is an acronym with many meanings and is sufficiently uncommon for laypersons that replacing parts of speech with it is bound to cause confusion. I am tempted generally to consider the unqualified use of acronyms as jargon which I prefer to avoid using whenever reasonably possible.
- kstrauser 8y ago
  I respectfully disagree. "Enter your PIN" can't refer to their ballpoint or to the little flag on their lapel. If I'm getting cash from the ATM, I can't mean the Asynchronous Transfer Mode router. "Present your CAC at the door" would only have one meaning in any setting where you'd be expected to show your CAC.
  - Retra 8y ago
    But neither of those contexts are an article on the internet or casual conversation, which could very well be about ballpoint pens, little flags, or anything else.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- mulmen 8y ago
  Then be explicit instead of redundant. “Enter your personal identification number to get cash from the automated teller machine.” What’s the point in collapsing a descriptive name to an initialism then partially redundantly expanding it?
  - Retra 8y ago
    The point is to communicate clearly and unambiguously, rather than satisfying some sort of pedantic aversion to harmless redundancy. Redundancy in communication can be very valuable.
  - 7952 8y ago
    At this point you could easily go your entire life without knowing what PIN stands for. It has become colloquial. It doesn't matter any more what is stands for. Just like Laser, radar, Tardis, or ATM. The original acronym doesn't matter. That's ok, beause Acronyms Seriously Suck. They are new words, with a mildly interesting derivation.
- angry_octet 8y ago
  Agree, the acronym shouldn't need to be dereferenced. The thing you plug in / swipe is a card --> call it a card. If you want someone to enter a number, say number. So "CAC card" is (label="CAC", object type=card). If someone needs l to be pedantic they can go to the/Pedantic or something. You can argue that PIN itself is wrong, as it doesn't identify a person at all, the account number in the identifier, what you enter is a secret.
zigzaggy 8y ago
I guess you’re getting downvoted because some people think this is nit-picky? But I wholeheartedly agree. This is a correction that is important in my job as a technical proposal writer. It important to call “tools” etc. by their correct name. “CAC card” is technically incorrect and it’s always my job to fix mistakes like these at work. Edited to add: in the case of this article, the author should have led with the spelled-out words then abbreviated afterwards.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > “CAC card” is technically incorrect Common Access Card (CAC) is a name for the card, but it's also the name of the system using the card. In a context where the abbreviation is otherwise consistently used as a name for the system and as an adjective to modify other nouns associated with the system, it appears both correct and more clear than the alternative to do the same thing with the card used in the system.
dang 8y ago
It's annoying, but so are off-topic subthreads, so can you please resist the temptation? (The unpredictable kind of off-topic subthread is fine, but there are many kinds of predictable ones and those should be resisted.)

> CAC card > CAC card > CAC cards This is so annoying. It's like saying ATM machine, or PIN number. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome

dwringer 8y ago

I think in many contexts there's a case to be made for the redundancy. For instance, at a checkout counter where a customer or cashier may have a pen in hand, may be wearing one or more pins, and is subsequently prompted for a PIN - saying "PIN number" immediately resolves any possible ambiguity. "ATM machine" similarly disambiguates the machine from the abbreviation for "at the moment". "CAC" is an acronym with many meanings and is sufficiently uncommon for laypersons that replacing parts of speech with it is bound to cause confusion. I am tempted generally to consider the unqualified use of acronyms as jargon which I prefer to avoid using whenever reasonably possible.

kstrauser 8y ago
I respectfully disagree. "Enter your PIN" can't refer to their ballpoint or to the little flag on their lapel. If I'm getting cash from the ATM, I can't mean the Asynchronous Transfer Mode router. "Present your CAC at the door" would only have one meaning in any setting where you'd be expected to show your CAC.
- Retra 8y ago
  But neither of those contexts are an article on the internet or casual conversation, which could very well be about ballpoint pens, little flags, or anything else.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
mulmen 8y ago
Then be explicit instead of redundant. “Enter your personal identification number to get cash from the automated teller machine.” What’s the point in collapsing a descriptive name to an initialism then partially redundantly expanding it?
- Retra 8y ago
  The point is to communicate clearly and unambiguously, rather than satisfying some sort of pedantic aversion to harmless redundancy. Redundancy in communication can be very valuable.
- 7952 8y ago
  At this point you could easily go your entire life without knowing what PIN stands for. It has become colloquial. It doesn't matter any more what is stands for. Just like Laser, radar, Tardis, or ATM. The original acronym doesn't matter. That's ok, beause Acronyms Seriously Suck. They are new words, with a mildly interesting derivation.
angry_octet 8y ago
Agree, the acronym shouldn't need to be dereferenced. The thing you plug in / swipe is a card --> call it a card. If you want someone to enter a number, say number. So "CAC card" is (label="CAC", object type=card). If someone needs l to be pedantic they can go to the/Pedantic or something. You can argue that PIN itself is wrong, as it doesn't identify a person at all, the account number in the identifier, what you enter is a secret.

zigzaggy 8y ago

I guess you’re getting downvoted because some people think this is nit-picky? But I wholeheartedly agree. This is a correction that is important in my job as a technical proposal writer. It important to call “tools” etc. by their correct name. “CAC card” is technically incorrect and it’s always my job to fix mistakes like these at work. Edited to add: in the case of this article, the author should have led with the spelled-out words then abbreviated afterwards.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> “CAC card” is technically incorrect Common Access Card (CAC) is a name for the card, but it's also the name of the system using the card. In a context where the abbreviation is otherwise consistently used as a name for the system and as an adjective to modify other nouns associated with the system, it appears both correct and more clear than the alternative to do the same thing with the card used in the system.

dang 8y ago

It's annoying, but so are off-topic subthreads, so can you please resist the temptation? (The unpredictable kind of off-topic subthread is fine, but there are many kinds of predictable ones and those should be resisted.)