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"..the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb...should we continue to fight, it would not only result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of t

by dsq 8y ago

"..the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb...should we continue to fight, it would not only result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization...This is the reason why We have ordered the acceptance of the provisions of the Joint Declaration of the Power". - Imperial Rescript on Surrender, by the Showa Emperor (Hirohito).

420codebro 8y ago
Total extinction of human civilization? I disagree. Total extinction of Japanese civilization. Absolutely.
int_19h 8y ago
A superweapon is a convenient thing to blame one's surrender on. But if you look at the discussions the Japanese war cabinet had behind the scenes these days, it's clear that they were worried about an imminent Soviet invasion just as much as the bombs.
- krapp 8y ago
  > But if you look at the discussions the Japanese war cabinet had behind the scenes these days, it's clear that they were worried about an imminent Soviet invasion just as much as the bombs. Can you post a source for these? Google hasn't been any help. English translations, obviously, would be preferred.
  - int_19h 8y ago
    Wikipedia has a lengthy article on various debates and controversies on this broad subject (whether the bombs were justified or not), including Soviet role in it, and whether it made the second bomb unnecessary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_over_the_atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#Nagasaki_bombing_unnecessary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_over_the_atomic_bombing...
    - krapp 8y ago
      It doesn't seem to have have transcripts of the "discussions the Japanese war cabinet had behind the scenes", which is specifically what you wanted people to look at in your former comment.
      - ThrowawayR2 8y ago
        Transcriptions are not available, obviously, but the closest thing I've seen to date is "The Day Man Lost: Hiroshima, 6 August 1945", which is available in English. Compiled by the Pacific War Research Society, a group of Japanese historians, from accounts from officials and written records, their version of history does indeed claim that the Japanese government was pinning their hopes on the Soviet Union brokering a peace agreement with the United States and was deliberately delaying responses to the US until their hopes were dashed by the Soviet declaration of war. The use of atomic weapons was an additional impetus, not a deciding factor. As an aside, the book makes for fascinating reading. Being compiled by Japanese from accounts by other Japanese, one has to be wary of a certain amount of face-saving and retconning, of course. However, it's the first I've seen that overlays the timeline of events occurring within the Japanese government with the US progress in the war.

by dsq 8y ago

420codebro 8y ago

Total extinction of human civilization? I disagree. Total extinction of Japanese civilization. Absolutely.

int_19h 8y ago

A superweapon is a convenient thing to blame one's surrender on. But if you look at the discussions the Japanese war cabinet had behind the scenes these days, it's clear that they were worried about an imminent Soviet invasion just as much as the bombs.

krapp 8y ago
> But if you look at the discussions the Japanese war cabinet had behind the scenes these days, it's clear that they were worried about an imminent Soviet invasion just as much as the bombs. Can you post a source for these? Google hasn't been any help. English translations, obviously, would be preferred.
- int_19h 8y ago
  Wikipedia has a lengthy article on various debates and controversies on this broad subject (whether the bombs were justified or not), including Soviet role in it, and whether it made the second bomb unnecessary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_over_the_atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#Nagasaki_bombing_unnecessary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_over_the_atomic_bombing...
  - krapp 8y ago
    It doesn't seem to have have transcripts of the "discussions the Japanese war cabinet had behind the scenes", which is specifically what you wanted people to look at in your former comment.
    - ThrowawayR2 8y ago
      Transcriptions are not available, obviously, but the closest thing I've seen to date is "The Day Man Lost: Hiroshima, 6 August 1945", which is available in English. Compiled by the Pacific War Research Society, a group of Japanese historians, from accounts from officials and written records, their version of history does indeed claim that the Japanese government was pinning their hopes on the Soviet Union brokering a peace agreement with the United States and was deliberately delaying responses to the US until their hopes were dashed by the Soviet declaration of war. The use of atomic weapons was an additional impetus, not a deciding factor. As an aside, the book makes for fascinating reading. Being compiled by Japanese from accounts by other Japanese, one has to be wary of a certain amount of face-saving and retconning, of course. However, it's the first I've seen that overlays the timeline of events occurring within the Japanese government with the US progress in the war.