7 ms·

I just watched a lecture on diabetes by Dr John McDougall last night. He described type 2 diabetes as the body's natural way to limit weight gain. He points out

by dpatru 8y ago

I just watched a lecture on diabetes by Dr John McDougall last night. He described type 2 diabetes as the body's natural way to limit weight gain. He points out that morbidly obese people are often not diabetic: lack of insulin resistance is what enabled them to keep growing. Viewed this way, diabetes is a sign that a person has reached maximum weight. Giving a person additional insulin at this point is like trying to override the body's defense mechanism and forcing it to gain even more weight. McDougall has lots of other interesting insights in the lecture and discusses how he treats diabetics. He goes into some detail about how he decides how to adjust medications and why he recommends his diet. I'm posting this here because it may be of use to people who may not have heard this information from their own doctors. The lecture is found here: https://youtu.be/UgE2IdL6tMw?t=1103 https://youtu.be/UgE2IdL6tMw?t=1103 The link starts the video at the point where McDougall starts discussing type 2 diabetes specifically. Before this he talks about insulin and type 1 diabetes.

airstrike 8y ago
This is extremely myopic... Once you're diabetic, a lot of "bad things" happen. People don't take insulin then just to continue eating...
- dpatru 8y ago
  McDougall points out at one point that it's common for people to gain weight after their doctor tells them to lose weight and puts them on insulin. Insulin promotes weight gain.
  - airstrike 8y ago
    It doesn't. Eating too much and exercising too little promotes weight gain.
    - ng12 8y ago
      Right. And the insulin injections allow them to continue their lifestyle of eating too much and exercising too little. Their body is literally rejecting food and that's the problem insulin solves. It does not solve the root issue. If you spend a lot of time around diabetics you'll met many people who have lost appendages and continue to live an morbidly unhealthy lifestyle.
      - airstrike 8y ago
        The insulin injections also allow diabetics to regulate their blood sugar so that they don't have to deal with even bigger problems. I have spent a lot of time around 4 diabetics in my family, none of which had morbidly unhealthy lifestyles. Sure, they could all use a little more exercise and moderation in their diet, but then again most people can.
    - sioux77 8y ago
      How about you educate yourself before spitting out nonsense: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17924864 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17924864 https://www.joslin.org/info/why_did_i_gain_weight_when_i_started_taking_insulin.html https://www.joslin.org/info/why_did_i_gain_weight_when_i_sta...
warrentr 8y ago
Sadly it's easier to staple stomachs than produce lasting behavior change
theprotocol 8y ago
How would this be reconciled with significant weight loss often being a symptom of type 2 diabetes?
- dpatru 8y ago
  > How would this be reconciled with significant weight loss often being a symptom of type 2 diabetes? I don't know, but here is my guess: At the beginning of the lecture McDougall talks about there being three kinds of diabetes: type 1 (pancreas produces no insulin), type 2 (pancreas produces enough insulin, but it doesn't work because of insulin resistance), type 1.5 (not enough insulin is being produced to cover the body's needs). Significant weight loss seems to fit in the type 1 and type 1.5. McDougall will prescribe insulin if a person is in danger of losing too much weight.
SomeCollegeBro 8y ago
I know several Type 2 diabetics who are not (and have never been) obese. While obesity is definitely a cause for the disease, it is not the only cause there is.
- dpatru 8y ago
  I googled "diabetes in thin people" and found the term "skinny fat", slim but with a high percentage of body fat. These are people who may appear to their body to have enough fat stored to survive a tough winter. (This was how McDougall describes the onset of diabetes.) Can people with low body fat get diabetes?
  - dotuser 8y ago
    Did you mean, can a person with low body fat get Type 2 diabetes?
    - dpatru 8y ago
      yes
      - dotuser 8y ago
        Dominique Wilkins has type 2 diabetes. I would imagine his body fat is pretty low.
- dhimes 8y ago
  Yep- it's in my family. Nothing to do with bodyfat. A body weight change of +/- 50 pounds makes no difference in fasting blood sugar. Hits later in life though (50s).
templaedhel 8y ago
Can't speak to the claims in this comment around type 2 diabetes, but worth noting this article and pill is specifically for type 1 diabetes, which is in no way related to weight or metabolism, but rather an autoimmune disease.
dotuser 8y ago
I think there's a lot of confusion/ignorance with Type 1 and Type 2 and most people just lump them both under the same diabetes umbrella. Diet and exercise will never be enough for Type 1's since the disease is an autoimmune disorder where the pancreas is attacked to the point where it makes little or no insulin (thus the need for external insulin). Type 2, as I understand it, is a progressive disease where the cell's insulin receptors become nonreceptive. I think, in some cases, though, Type 2's can become Type 1's due to their pancreas being overworked to the point where they need insulin. And on the flip side, Type 1's can become Type 2's as a result of eating poorly and overusing insulin. But I wish each disease had it's own name to avoid confusion over how each one should be treated.
- zackmorris 8y ago
  This is a huge problem. I wish the medical industry would stop using "type" and assign specific names to disease variations. So type 1 would be diabetes but type 2 would be dropped from convention and called insulin resistance (or a new name, I dunno, setebaid). Some other words that have probably cost the world billions of dollars and interfered with public opinion: * Hepatitis A/B and C (A and B were cured early on so name should be livervirus or whatever, C should remain hepatitis until it's eradicated) * Herpes types 1 and 2 (1 should be renamed to cold sores since almost everyone has it, 2 should remain herpes until it's cured) * Nonfatal cancers (especially of the skin) need new names to prevent scaring people, especially if they've been largely cured. * SSH "private key" and "public key" (should have been called "secret" and "share" so that people would know which to keep secret and which to share.. yes I realize they are symmetric) I could go on, but you get the drift. I think a problem here is that experts in various fields may have exceptional problem solving skills but be terrible at naming things. I've met many programmers with this affliction!
  - Simon_says 8y ago
    I think the naming of private/public keys is already pretty clear ...
geoelectric 8y ago
and why he recommends his diet. ...which is the key. McDougall's claim to fame is fad diets and prepackaged food for the same since the 80s, and anything where his bottom line is involved is suspect. He's the vegan equivalent of Robert Atkins, basically. McDougall is not who I look to for nutritional (or really any) advice. I'm sure he's right sometimes, but his credibility is so compromised by his business that I'd need to hear it from someone else first with their data proving it before I'd ever believe it. If he told me the sky is blue, I'd get a second opinion.
- dpatru 8y ago
  I am mostly familiar with McDougall because of his extensive, high-quality, free youtube lectures. I have exactly the opposite impression of him than you. Instead of advocating a fad diet, he advocates a low fat, whole food, starch-based diet. He justifies it first on the grounds that every successful civilization has had this diet. Pick any civilization, country, or people group that is healthy and you will find that their diet is based on starch. His diet is the opposite of a fad diet: it's the diet that has sustained civilization. His diet is cheap and accessible. You can follow his diet by eating locally produced wheat, potatoes, oats, rice, corn, millet, beans, etc, in all parts of the world that have an agriculture season. A feature of his diet is that starchy foods store well. Indeed, he says that the reason humans became so successful is because they were able to have a food supply that was high in energy and could be stored. McDougall does not sell pills or supplements. He specifically counsels against them, saying that they are unnecessary with a good diet and potentially harmful. In addition to a lot of free educational content, his website (drmcdougall.com) features different programs, including a 10 day live-in program which includes medical care plus meals and education for $6,060 for a single, full participant. You can also buy books, podcasts, and apparel. I didn't see any prepackaged food on the site. I've considered him a source of high-quality, unbiased advice for several years. His presentations are clear and logical. He's not trying to sell me something. He is conservative in the sense that he prefers cheap, simple solutions before expensive, complex ones. For example, he would recommend that before you try medication and surgery, you should first try to change your diet. If you're not feeling well, make sure you're eating eating a low-fat, whole food, starch-based diet before trying to find a missing miracle vitamin or supplement.
anon4lol 8y ago
> ...described type 2 diabetes as the body's natural way to limit weight gain. Hogwash. If that were true, I'd be skinny. Aside from the standard low fat calorie restricted diets preferred by nutritionists, I've noticed that there seems to be two prevalent themes with respect to currently marketed dietary advice targeted towards T2 diabetics: Theory #1. High fat intake or the "wrong" fat intake causes insulin resistance by infiltrating the cells or "clogging up" the insulin receptors on cells. Solution: buy my low fat vegan diet plan. Theory #2. Eating carbs spikes glucose, which intern spikes insulin. "Insulin resistance is a function of having high insulin levels all the time." Solution: buy my low carb diet plan, or buy my book on intermittent fasting.

by dpatru 8y ago

airstrike 8y ago

This is extremely myopic... Once you're diabetic, a lot of "bad things" happen. People don't take insulin then just to continue eating...

dpatru 8y ago
McDougall points out at one point that it's common for people to gain weight after their doctor tells them to lose weight and puts them on insulin. Insulin promotes weight gain.
- airstrike 8y ago
  It doesn't. Eating too much and exercising too little promotes weight gain.
  - ng12 8y ago
    Right. And the insulin injections allow them to continue their lifestyle of eating too much and exercising too little. Their body is literally rejecting food and that's the problem insulin solves. It does not solve the root issue. If you spend a lot of time around diabetics you'll met many people who have lost appendages and continue to live an morbidly unhealthy lifestyle.
    - airstrike 8y ago
      The insulin injections also allow diabetics to regulate their blood sugar so that they don't have to deal with even bigger problems. I have spent a lot of time around 4 diabetics in my family, none of which had morbidly unhealthy lifestyles. Sure, they could all use a little more exercise and moderation in their diet, but then again most people can.
  - sioux77 8y ago
    How about you educate yourself before spitting out nonsense: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17924864 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17924864 https://www.joslin.org/info/why_did_i_gain_weight_when_i_started_taking_insulin.html https://www.joslin.org/info/why_did_i_gain_weight_when_i_sta...

warrentr 8y ago

Sadly it's easier to staple stomachs than produce lasting behavior change

theprotocol 8y ago

How would this be reconciled with significant weight loss often being a symptom of type 2 diabetes?

dpatru 8y ago
> How would this be reconciled with significant weight loss often being a symptom of type 2 diabetes? I don't know, but here is my guess: At the beginning of the lecture McDougall talks about there being three kinds of diabetes: type 1 (pancreas produces no insulin), type 2 (pancreas produces enough insulin, but it doesn't work because of insulin resistance), type 1.5 (not enough insulin is being produced to cover the body's needs). Significant weight loss seems to fit in the type 1 and type 1.5. McDougall will prescribe insulin if a person is in danger of losing too much weight.

SomeCollegeBro 8y ago

I know several Type 2 diabetics who are not (and have never been) obese. While obesity is definitely a cause for the disease, it is not the only cause there is.

dpatru 8y ago
I googled "diabetes in thin people" and found the term "skinny fat", slim but with a high percentage of body fat. These are people who may appear to their body to have enough fat stored to survive a tough winter. (This was how McDougall describes the onset of diabetes.) Can people with low body fat get diabetes?
- dotuser 8y ago
  Did you mean, can a person with low body fat get Type 2 diabetes?
  - dpatru 8y ago
    yes
    - dotuser 8y ago
      Dominique Wilkins has type 2 diabetes. I would imagine his body fat is pretty low.
dhimes 8y ago
Yep- it's in my family. Nothing to do with bodyfat. A body weight change of +/- 50 pounds makes no difference in fasting blood sugar. Hits later in life though (50s).

templaedhel 8y ago

Can't speak to the claims in this comment around type 2 diabetes, but worth noting this article and pill is specifically for type 1 diabetes, which is in no way related to weight or metabolism, but rather an autoimmune disease.

dotuser 8y ago

I think there's a lot of confusion/ignorance with Type 1 and Type 2 and most people just lump them both under the same diabetes umbrella. Diet and exercise will never be enough for Type 1's since the disease is an autoimmune disorder where the pancreas is attacked to the point where it makes little or no insulin (thus the need for external insulin). Type 2, as I understand it, is a progressive disease where the cell's insulin receptors become nonreceptive. I think, in some cases, though, Type 2's can become Type 1's due to their pancreas being overworked to the point where they need insulin. And on the flip side, Type 1's can become Type 2's as a result of eating poorly and overusing insulin. But I wish each disease had it's own name to avoid confusion over how each one should be treated.

zackmorris 8y ago
This is a huge problem. I wish the medical industry would stop using "type" and assign specific names to disease variations. So type 1 would be diabetes but type 2 would be dropped from convention and called insulin resistance (or a new name, I dunno, setebaid). Some other words that have probably cost the world billions of dollars and interfered with public opinion: * Hepatitis A/B and C (A and B were cured early on so name should be livervirus or whatever, C should remain hepatitis until it's eradicated) * Herpes types 1 and 2 (1 should be renamed to cold sores since almost everyone has it, 2 should remain herpes until it's cured) * Nonfatal cancers (especially of the skin) need new names to prevent scaring people, especially if they've been largely cured. * SSH "private key" and "public key" (should have been called "secret" and "share" so that people would know which to keep secret and which to share.. yes I realize they are symmetric) I could go on, but you get the drift. I think a problem here is that experts in various fields may have exceptional problem solving skills but be terrible at naming things. I've met many programmers with this affliction!
- Simon_says 8y ago
  I think the naming of private/public keys is already pretty clear ...

geoelectric 8y ago

and why he recommends his diet. ...which is the key. McDougall's claim to fame is fad diets and prepackaged food for the same since the 80s, and anything where his bottom line is involved is suspect. He's the vegan equivalent of Robert Atkins, basically. McDougall is not who I look to for nutritional (or really any) advice. I'm sure he's right sometimes, but his credibility is so compromised by his business that I'd need to hear it from someone else first with their data proving it before I'd ever believe it. If he told me the sky is blue, I'd get a second opinion.

dpatru 8y ago
I am mostly familiar with McDougall because of his extensive, high-quality, free youtube lectures. I have exactly the opposite impression of him than you. Instead of advocating a fad diet, he advocates a low fat, whole food, starch-based diet. He justifies it first on the grounds that every successful civilization has had this diet. Pick any civilization, country, or people group that is healthy and you will find that their diet is based on starch. His diet is the opposite of a fad diet: it's the diet that has sustained civilization. His diet is cheap and accessible. You can follow his diet by eating locally produced wheat, potatoes, oats, rice, corn, millet, beans, etc, in all parts of the world that have an agriculture season. A feature of his diet is that starchy foods store well. Indeed, he says that the reason humans became so successful is because they were able to have a food supply that was high in energy and could be stored. McDougall does not sell pills or supplements. He specifically counsels against them, saying that they are unnecessary with a good diet and potentially harmful. In addition to a lot of free educational content, his website (drmcdougall.com) features different programs, including a 10 day live-in program which includes medical care plus meals and education for $6,060 for a single, full participant. You can also buy books, podcasts, and apparel. I didn't see any prepackaged food on the site. I've considered him a source of high-quality, unbiased advice for several years. His presentations are clear and logical. He's not trying to sell me something. He is conservative in the sense that he prefers cheap, simple solutions before expensive, complex ones. For example, he would recommend that before you try medication and surgery, you should first try to change your diet. If you're not feeling well, make sure you're eating eating a low-fat, whole food, starch-based diet before trying to find a missing miracle vitamin or supplement.

anon4lol 8y ago

> ...described type 2 diabetes as the body's natural way to limit weight gain. Hogwash. If that were true, I'd be skinny. Aside from the standard low fat calorie restricted diets preferred by nutritionists, I've noticed that there seems to be two prevalent themes with respect to currently marketed dietary advice targeted towards T2 diabetics: Theory #1. High fat intake or the "wrong" fat intake causes insulin resistance by infiltrating the cells or "clogging up" the insulin receptors on cells. Solution: buy my low fat vegan diet plan. Theory #2. Eating carbs spikes glucose, which intern spikes insulin. "Insulin resistance is a function of having high insulin levels all the time." Solution: buy my low carb diet plan, or buy my book on intermittent fasting.