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> Free movement is not without consequence, address it honestly, attempt to solve real issues and maybe people come around. The problem is that unrestricted mo

> Free movement is not without consequence, address it honestly, attempt to solve real issues and maybe people come around. The problem is that unrestricted movement disrupts culture and lowers a lot of social statistics all at once - in a way that can be really disruptive to the host culture. Similarly, no matter how you explain it, the deal in practice is "We'll take a lot of money from the middle class and give it to the globally impoverished." Understandably, the people who are just being taken from don't seem to like that deal very much; and cultures which are rapidly disrupted by low-class migrants don't seem to do well. Never mind that "free movement" is usually just political cover for people looking to import more workers after their leadership and the society they built is so toxic, it's killing the indigenous population. Naturally, the people being fed into the meat grinder and replaced aren't particularly fond of paying for their replacements to be imported. Talking about "free movement" in that context has about the same tone as "right sizing" your business, while off-shoring.

arethuza 8y ago
But Brexit probably won't reduce immigration - it might well increase total numbers. All that will change is where people are coming from.
- NotAnEconomist 8y ago
  I didn't mean to imply Brexit was a solution to anything - just that people can understand what the deal with free movement is, but be against it for perfectly rational reasons.
kartan 8y ago
> The problem is that unrestricted movement disrupts culture and lowers a lot of social statistics all at once - in a way that can be really disruptive to the host culture. So, free movement inside the UK should be restricted? The UK should be divided by countries and block free movement? And what happens if two cities have different cultures? I'm different from my neighbors and I feel I have more in common with people from other countries, how to done that? My country is Christian, but I'm an atheist. I am disruptiny the country culture. I'd that bad? Global communications and exchange of people and ideas has brought riches to the world that were impossible to think of one century ago. Tribalism has a romantic appealing, but it's based in the falacy of the Noble Savage. You are right that there is people that will abuse the system. But, that is true for any system. So, is better to try to improve it instead of throwing it away without an alternative. People should be concerned about losing their jobs, losing wealth, etc. And look for the causes instead of using a straw man.

arethuza 8y ago

But Brexit probably won't reduce immigration - it might well increase total numbers. All that will change is where people are coming from.

NotAnEconomist 8y ago
I didn't mean to imply Brexit was a solution to anything - just that people can understand what the deal with free movement is, but be against it for perfectly rational reasons.

kartan 8y ago

> The problem is that unrestricted movement disrupts culture and lowers a lot of social statistics all at once - in a way that can be really disruptive to the host culture. So, free movement inside the UK should be restricted? The UK should be divided by countries and block free movement? And what happens if two cities have different cultures? I'm different from my neighbors and I feel I have more in common with people from other countries, how to done that? My country is Christian, but I'm an atheist. I am disruptiny the country culture. I'd that bad? Global communications and exchange of people and ideas has brought riches to the world that were impossible to think of one century ago. Tribalism has a romantic appealing, but it's based in the falacy of the Noble Savage. You are right that there is people that will abuse the system. But, that is true for any system. So, is better to try to improve it instead of throwing it away without an alternative. People should be concerned about losing their jobs, losing wealth, etc. And look for the causes instead of using a straw man.