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Jesus man. Novo has invented and produced more insulin in the last 30 years than any other company or organization. I get that you're disgruntled about the pric

by RPLong 8y ago

Jesus man. Novo has invented and produced more insulin in the last 30 years than any other company or organization. I get that you're disgruntled about the price of insulin; I am, too. But put the blame where it belongs, not on the people who are producing more and more insulin to accommodate more and more diabetic lifestyles and helping to drive the price down rather than up.

sithlord 8y ago
Per a quick google <15% of type 2 diabetics use insulin. I would say this effects more type 1 diabetics than anything. Or are you trying to say peoples lifestyles are leading them to an autoimmune disease?
- RPLong 8y ago
  I'm saying Novo Nordisk produces insulin, and in doing so causes downward pressure on insulin prices thanks to basic economics. (When the supply of a good increases at the same level of demand, price falls.) This is true for both type 1 and type 2 diabetics. In Novo's case, they have two kinds of long-acting insulin analogue taken 1-2 times per day for both T1 and T2; they have to my knowledge the only ultra-long-acting insulin on the market, taken once every 2-3 days, most appropriate for T2, but also viable for some T1 lifestyles; they have very-rapid-acting insulin for T1 diabetics only, and they have older kinds of insulins appropriate for older patients. They offer all of these products in good supplies. I've never seen or heard of a Novo product's being unavailable at the pharmacy. So, as far as I can tell, their only influence on insulin prices is downward pressure, not upward pressure. Every new product they produce lowers the price of insulin despite industry-wide changes.
  - cazum 8y ago
    Insulin prices have inflated by about 500% over the past two decades in the United States. Novo Nordisk's profits have seen a similar rise. Now, im no economitician, but I'd wager a vial of Fiasp® that there's more than just supply and demand going on here.
    - RPLong 8y ago
      Yes, there is more than supply and demand going on here, which explains why one company's pricing policies can't account for a 500% industry-wide increase. Novo is not a monopolist. A lot has changed in the last 20 years. A lot of regulatory and insurance law changes. When the law mandates that we pay for all our medicine via 3rd party intermediaries, you can expect a corresponding price increase as those 3rd parties add their intermediary markup.
    - Sacho 8y ago
      Here's what an ADA working group[0] had to say about possible causes for Novo Nordisk's insulin price increase: > Novo Nordisk also published data for two of their insulin products, NovoLog and NovoLog FlexPen. Since the early 2000s, the CAGRs for the list prices for NovoLog and NovoLog FlexPen (Fig. 7) have been in the range of 9.8–9.9% (22). This translated into large total increases in the list prices: 353% (2001–2016) for a NovoLog vial and 270% (2003–2016) for a FlexPen. In contrast, net prices received by the manufacturer increased at a more modest rate (3–36%) with CAGRs of 0.2–2.1%. Novo Nordisk, Eli Lilly, and Sanofi have reported that rebates have grown rapidly in recent years, representing more than 40% of U.S. gross sales in some cases [0] - http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/diacare/41/6/1299.full.pdf http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/diacare/41/6/1299.f...
    - tokai 8y ago
      The price of Novo insulin in Denmark has not risen since 2005 for the products I checked.[0] So they haven't followed the price index and have thus become cheaper. [0] https://www.medicinpriser.dk/?lng=2 https://www.medicinpriser.dk/?lng=2
    - refurb 8y ago
      You're missing the key part of the story. Yes, Novo's price went up, but so did their rebates. The price of insulin (net price) has actually be increasing less than inflation.
  - sithlord 8y ago
    There are really 2 major makers of insulin Norvo and Elli and another that isnt near as popular, Apidra. Each insurance company has a 'preferred' where you only have 1 choice. So, with that I dont feel like there really is any competition. A good step forward might be to disallow insurance companies from having 'preferred' brands.
    - RPLong 8y ago
      Not a bad idea at all. I'd prefer that insurance companies weren't involved at all, but as a second-best option, I'd prefer if the insurance companies allowed the pharma companies to compete with each other for my business!
- jonlucc 8y ago
  Both T1D and T2D are increasing year-over-year. Also, 90-95% of diabetics in the US have T2D, so the 15% of T2D patients on insulin is still 13.5-14.25% of all diabetics. We already know that 76.5-80.75% of all diabetics aren't using insulin, because they're non-insulin using T2D patients. In other words, more T2D patients take insulin than exist in all of the T1D population.
- ghkbrew 8y ago
  Also, according to a quick google search only ~5% of diabetics are type 1, so there are still about 3 times as many type 2 diabetics taking insulin. Regardless, I suspect he meant that more different types of insulin allow diabetics to take insulin in more different ways aka lifestyles. e.g. closed loop CGM vs a daily long acting insulin plus a short acting for meals.
cazum 8y ago
Novo Nordisk has yearly profits of somewhere in the neighborhood of 10b a year. Those numbers are partially generated by pricing insulin products out of reach of many people who died from not being able to afford it. Sorry if I don't have a lot of sympathy for them.
- throwitaway6512 8y ago
  25$ at Walmart. I don’t get how people disregard this all the time. I don’t know if any other companies are selling affordable insulin directly to consumers but Novo IS doing just that.

by RPLong 8y ago

sithlord 8y ago

Per a quick google <15% of type 2 diabetics use insulin. I would say this effects more type 1 diabetics than anything. Or are you trying to say peoples lifestyles are leading them to an autoimmune disease?

RPLong 8y ago
I'm saying Novo Nordisk produces insulin, and in doing so causes downward pressure on insulin prices thanks to basic economics. (When the supply of a good increases at the same level of demand, price falls.) This is true for both type 1 and type 2 diabetics. In Novo's case, they have two kinds of long-acting insulin analogue taken 1-2 times per day for both T1 and T2; they have to my knowledge the only ultra-long-acting insulin on the market, taken once every 2-3 days, most appropriate for T2, but also viable for some T1 lifestyles; they have very-rapid-acting insulin for T1 diabetics only, and they have older kinds of insulins appropriate for older patients. They offer all of these products in good supplies. I've never seen or heard of a Novo product's being unavailable at the pharmacy. So, as far as I can tell, their only influence on insulin prices is downward pressure, not upward pressure. Every new product they produce lowers the price of insulin despite industry-wide changes.
- cazum 8y ago
  Insulin prices have inflated by about 500% over the past two decades in the United States. Novo Nordisk's profits have seen a similar rise. Now, im no economitician, but I'd wager a vial of Fiasp® that there's more than just supply and demand going on here.
  - RPLong 8y ago
    Yes, there is more than supply and demand going on here, which explains why one company's pricing policies can't account for a 500% industry-wide increase. Novo is not a monopolist. A lot has changed in the last 20 years. A lot of regulatory and insurance law changes. When the law mandates that we pay for all our medicine via 3rd party intermediaries, you can expect a corresponding price increase as those 3rd parties add their intermediary markup.
  - Sacho 8y ago
    Here's what an ADA working group[0] had to say about possible causes for Novo Nordisk's insulin price increase: > Novo Nordisk also published data for two of their insulin products, NovoLog and NovoLog FlexPen. Since the early 2000s, the CAGRs for the list prices for NovoLog and NovoLog FlexPen (Fig. 7) have been in the range of 9.8–9.9% (22). This translated into large total increases in the list prices: 353% (2001–2016) for a NovoLog vial and 270% (2003–2016) for a FlexPen. In contrast, net prices received by the manufacturer increased at a more modest rate (3–36%) with CAGRs of 0.2–2.1%. Novo Nordisk, Eli Lilly, and Sanofi have reported that rebates have grown rapidly in recent years, representing more than 40% of U.S. gross sales in some cases [0] - http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/diacare/41/6/1299.full.pdf http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/diacare/41/6/1299.f...
  - tokai 8y ago
    The price of Novo insulin in Denmark has not risen since 2005 for the products I checked.[0] So they haven't followed the price index and have thus become cheaper. [0] https://www.medicinpriser.dk/?lng=2 https://www.medicinpriser.dk/?lng=2
  - refurb 8y ago
    You're missing the key part of the story. Yes, Novo's price went up, but so did their rebates. The price of insulin (net price) has actually be increasing less than inflation.
- sithlord 8y ago
  There are really 2 major makers of insulin Norvo and Elli and another that isnt near as popular, Apidra. Each insurance company has a 'preferred' where you only have 1 choice. So, with that I dont feel like there really is any competition. A good step forward might be to disallow insurance companies from having 'preferred' brands.
  - RPLong 8y ago
    Not a bad idea at all. I'd prefer that insurance companies weren't involved at all, but as a second-best option, I'd prefer if the insurance companies allowed the pharma companies to compete with each other for my business!
jonlucc 8y ago
Both T1D and T2D are increasing year-over-year. Also, 90-95% of diabetics in the US have T2D, so the 15% of T2D patients on insulin is still 13.5-14.25% of all diabetics. We already know that 76.5-80.75% of all diabetics aren't using insulin, because they're non-insulin using T2D patients. In other words, more T2D patients take insulin than exist in all of the T1D population.
ghkbrew 8y ago
Also, according to a quick google search only ~5% of diabetics are type 1, so there are still about 3 times as many type 2 diabetics taking insulin. Regardless, I suspect he meant that more different types of insulin allow diabetics to take insulin in more different ways aka lifestyles. e.g. closed loop CGM vs a daily long acting insulin plus a short acting for meals.

cazum 8y ago

Novo Nordisk has yearly profits of somewhere in the neighborhood of 10b a year. Those numbers are partially generated by pricing insulin products out of reach of many people who died from not being able to afford it. Sorry if I don't have a lot of sympathy for them.

throwitaway6512 8y ago
25$ at Walmart. I don’t get how people disregard this all the time. I don’t know if any other companies are selling affordable insulin directly to consumers but Novo IS doing just that.