5 ms·

And java is a memory hog quite painful to deploy and tune.

sacado2 8y ago
Yes, launching a new server/executable in java is a PITA dur to the JVM warmup (at least it was a few years ago, don't know whether they improved that point or not).
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Only for those that don't use a JVM with either AOT compilation or JIT caching.
- grumpydba 8y ago
  Don't forget that you also have to install and update the JVM. We admins don't like that.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Only those that don't know how to bundle the JVM with the application or make use of a commercial AOT compiler to native code.
    - grumpydba 8y ago
      You prove my point, it requires specific knowledge full of gotchas.
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        As team lead I consider having the interest to master the tooling part of the job requirements and respective evaluation, not specific knowledge full of gothas.
pjmlp 8y ago
Memory hog only by those that don't know what they are doing and happilly new everywhere. Yes it is hard to tune, but not so much different than playing with C or C++ compilation switches, across each compiler that is being used in production.
- grumpydba 8y ago
  > Memory hog only by those that don't know what they are doing and happilly new everywhere. Go uses an order of magnitude less memory for most type of workloads though. Also you don't tune c++ binaries delivered to you. You have to tune the JVM's option to death for big apps. I can't count the number of incidents "solved" by raising the Xmx param.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    I tune C++ compilers, just like I tune Java compilers, in both cases I can decide to do it during AOT compilation or at a later moment. The big question is how properly those big apps were coded. Go doesn't run Fintech servers, while Java keeps replacing C++ servers. Yes, one needs to code Java with low level tricks like C++, but it is possible and there are many performance experts doing it. How many Fintech servers are running on Go?
    - grumpydba 8y ago
      > I tune C++ compilers, just like I tune Java compilers, in both cases I can decide to do it during AOT compilation or at a later moment How many customers run self-compiled, say mysql binaries? Or mongodb? An tiny minority. Now how many tune cassandra or hadoop jvms? A big chunk. You can use niche cases to make a point (fintech is almost the textbook definition of a niche software use case), however what you say is plain wrong most of the time. Also, I've managed thousands of c++ and thousands of java processes. I'd take c++ ones over java any day.
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        Depends on how many use Gentoo, for example. Proper Cassandra and Hadoop deployments are as niche as Fintech, the large majority could solve their problems with UNIX command line tools. On my world the team manages deployments, I rather take Java over C++ compilation times, and having tools like Mission Control to monitor cluster performance on production servers.

Yes, launching a new server/executable in java is a PITA dur to the JVM warmup (at least it was a few years ago, don't know whether they improved that point or not).

pjmlp 8y ago
Only for those that don't use a JVM with either AOT compilation or JIT caching.
grumpydba 8y ago
Don't forget that you also have to install and update the JVM. We admins don't like that.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Only those that don't know how to bundle the JVM with the application or make use of a commercial AOT compiler to native code.
  - grumpydba 8y ago
    You prove my point, it requires specific knowledge full of gotchas.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      As team lead I consider having the interest to master the tooling part of the job requirements and respective evaluation, not specific knowledge full of gothas.

pjmlp 8y ago

Memory hog only by those that don't know what they are doing and happilly new everywhere. Yes it is hard to tune, but not so much different than playing with C or C++ compilation switches, across each compiler that is being used in production.

grumpydba 8y ago
> Memory hog only by those that don't know what they are doing and happilly new everywhere. Go uses an order of magnitude less memory for most type of workloads though. Also you don't tune c++ binaries delivered to you. You have to tune the JVM's option to death for big apps. I can't count the number of incidents "solved" by raising the Xmx param.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  I tune C++ compilers, just like I tune Java compilers, in both cases I can decide to do it during AOT compilation or at a later moment. The big question is how properly those big apps were coded. Go doesn't run Fintech servers, while Java keeps replacing C++ servers. Yes, one needs to code Java with low level tricks like C++, but it is possible and there are many performance experts doing it. How many Fintech servers are running on Go?
  - grumpydba 8y ago
    > I tune C++ compilers, just like I tune Java compilers, in both cases I can decide to do it during AOT compilation or at a later moment How many customers run self-compiled, say mysql binaries? Or mongodb? An tiny minority. Now how many tune cassandra or hadoop jvms? A big chunk. You can use niche cases to make a point (fintech is almost the textbook definition of a niche software use case), however what you say is plain wrong most of the time. Also, I've managed thousands of c++ and thousands of java processes. I'd take c++ ones over java any day.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Depends on how many use Gentoo, for example. Proper Cassandra and Hadoop deployments are as niche as Fintech, the large majority could solve their problems with UNIX command line tools. On my world the team manages deployments, I rather take Java over C++ compilation times, and having tools like Mission Control to monitor cluster performance on production servers.