3 ms·

Arms sales are not a large part of the UK economy

justin66 8y ago
(edited for clarity) they're the world's sixth largest arms exporter, immediately after China on the list: https://www.businessinsider.com/top-countries-exporting-weapons-arms-sales-2018-3#6-united-kingdom-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/top-countries-exporting-weap... Interestingly, half of those sales are to Saudi Arabia.
- JoeSmithson 8y ago
  Your point doesn't contradict my point at all...? Are you saying that ~0.5% is "a large part"?
  - justin66 8y ago
    I don't know or care about that 0.5% figure, but five percent of exports is a significant chunk of the UK's economy, yes. Are we pretending it isn't for some reason? It will be an unusually useful flow of money in the months to come because it doesn't depend on a decent trade relationship with the EU to continue.
    - JoeSmithson 8y ago
      How are you calculating that Arms represent 5% of UK exports?
      - justin66 8y ago
        I'm a little shocked at how much it is in absolute terms, but I'm not familiar with this data. Don't have a lot of time to spend on this but, from the UK government: On a rolling 10 year basis, UK remains the second largest global defence exporter. In 2017, the UK won defence orders worth £9 billion, up on the previous year’s (£5.9 billion) and further illustrative of the ‘volatile’ nature of the global export market. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/defence-and-security-exports-for-2017/uk-defence-and-security-export-statistics-for-2017 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/defence-and-secur... Total 2017 exports were $441 billion USD (call it 340 pounds sterling?). https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/resources/the-world-factbook/geos/uk.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/resources/the-world... That looks like about half of what I said in percentage terms. I'd stand by what I said about it being a sizable chunk, though. (there are some big picture odd and probably important things about these numbers which I haven't even thought about, like, the UK exports F-35s to the United States?!? I'm not sure who gains leverage from that in the trade relationship, but I suspect it's the US.)
        JoeSmithson 8y ago
        UK exports in 2017 were ~£617bn [0] meaning £9bn in arms exports represented about 1% of exports and about 0.5% of the UK economy. Personally I would not describe 0.5% as "a large part" of anything, I would describe it as "a small part", but if you think otherwise we can agree to disagree [0] https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/timeseries/ktmw https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpay... m
        justin66 8y ago
        > UK exports in 2017 were ~£617bn How odd that the CIA World Factbook was so far off. Thanks. > Personally I would not describe 0.5% as "a large part" of anything, I would describe it as "a small part", but if you think otherwise we can agree to disagree I think you're linguistically right, but all this sperging out about the distinction between being a large part of something versus being a small part of an extremely large whole is perhaps missing the point a bit. To Y_Y's original point, which isn't really about the total size of the UK's economy and was of course a bit harsh: a taste of nine billion pounds is more than enough money to cause politicians to behave dishonorably or irrationally and to make some powerful few rich beyond the dreams of avarice. There are some pretty nasty examples of what happens when a slice of that kind of money is at stake in the US government's budgeting process, and I imagine the UK is at least similar.

(edited for clarity) they're the world's sixth largest arms exporter, immediately after China on the list: https://www.businessinsider.com/top-countries-exporting-weapons-arms-sales-2018-3#6-united-kingdom-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/top-countries-exporting-weap... Interestingly, half of those sales are to Saudi Arabia.

JoeSmithson 8y ago
Your point doesn't contradict my point at all...? Are you saying that ~0.5% is "a large part"?
- justin66 8y ago
  I don't know or care about that 0.5% figure, but five percent of exports is a significant chunk of the UK's economy, yes. Are we pretending it isn't for some reason? It will be an unusually useful flow of money in the months to come because it doesn't depend on a decent trade relationship with the EU to continue.
  - JoeSmithson 8y ago
    How are you calculating that Arms represent 5% of UK exports?
    - justin66 8y ago
      I'm a little shocked at how much it is in absolute terms, but I'm not familiar with this data. Don't have a lot of time to spend on this but, from the UK government: On a rolling 10 year basis, UK remains the second largest global defence exporter. In 2017, the UK won defence orders worth £9 billion, up on the previous year’s (£5.9 billion) and further illustrative of the ‘volatile’ nature of the global export market. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/defence-and-security-exports-for-2017/uk-defence-and-security-export-statistics-for-2017 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/defence-and-secur... Total 2017 exports were $441 billion USD (call it 340 pounds sterling?). https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/resources/the-world-factbook/geos/uk.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/resources/the-world... That looks like about half of what I said in percentage terms. I'd stand by what I said about it being a sizable chunk, though. (there are some big picture odd and probably important things about these numbers which I haven't even thought about, like, the UK exports F-35s to the United States?!? I'm not sure who gains leverage from that in the trade relationship, but I suspect it's the US.)
      - JoeSmithson 8y ago
        UK exports in 2017 were ~£617bn [0] meaning £9bn in arms exports represented about 1% of exports and about 0.5% of the UK economy. Personally I would not describe 0.5% as "a large part" of anything, I would describe it as "a small part", but if you think otherwise we can agree to disagree [0] https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/timeseries/ktmw https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpay... m
        justin66 8y ago
        > UK exports in 2017 were ~£617bn How odd that the CIA World Factbook was so far off. Thanks. > Personally I would not describe 0.5% as "a large part" of anything, I would describe it as "a small part", but if you think otherwise we can agree to disagree I think you're linguistically right, but all this sperging out about the distinction between being a large part of something versus being a small part of an extremely large whole is perhaps missing the point a bit. To Y_Y's original point, which isn't really about the total size of the UK's economy and was of course a bit harsh: a taste of nine billion pounds is more than enough money to cause politicians to behave dishonorably or irrationally and to make some powerful few rich beyond the dreams of avarice. There are some pretty nasty examples of what happens when a slice of that kind of money is at stake in the US government's budgeting process, and I imagine the UK is at least similar.