6 ms·

The Beatles: The Original Lean Startup

21 points by waxman 16y ago

stckrpnd10 16y ago
Good comparison. Did Apple perhaps think the same thing? Their marketing (as always) is brilliant as I would expect it as a nice push for iTunes & Ping. It's hard not to like "Love Me Do." If the Beatles music changed over-time, are you suggesting a pivot from the MVP? Perhaps just a change of times? Their feat for being so liked/relevant for so long is nothing to sneeze at. Is that possible for startups?
- PhantomShitter 16y ago
  Oh god, please just shut up. Seriously, you're getting drool everywhere.
  - stckrpnd10 16y ago
    Won't stoop to this level. If you'd like to engage in reasoned, logical and most important, civil discussion, I'm game. Until then, later, PhantomShitter.
- NathanKP 16y ago
  I think that as far as longevity goes, both music and startups can vary in how long they maintain audience interest. For instance, there are still people today who like to listen to classical music, but that audience is still much smaller than the audience who likes the latest pop star. The Beatles have maintained a very loyal audience base, but as far as sales go they too are no longer the most popular. Just like music can slowly lose popularity as new generations become interested in new genres, so web apps lose popularity over time. But I think that decay is greatly accelerated by the fast moving nature of technology. Therefore while 50 years doesn't move the Beatles into obscurity, and a couple hundred years doesn't completely erase interest in classical music, just five or ten years can sweep away a web app and replace it with something new. It might be possible to create a startup which tries to maintain a small, very loyal group of people who love the startup from the start and continue loving it as it is for a long time, but just as in the music industry the best results are achieved by constantly updating the style and techniques to match what people want today.
  - stckrpnd10 16y ago
    I agree with the above. I posed the question because it's an interesting question on how does a startup (or band) maintain its base of loyalists - especially if it stops evolving at some point. Comparing the two, I think (we'd hope) that technology will evolve enough to replace itself quicker than something like classical music. But, at some point, perhaps it won't or there's a app that can last. For instance, I'm interested in how CraigsList can keep its foothold / loyal followers? Sure has done an amazing job so far.
- tybris 16y ago
  Could you try to just say. "I'm a fan whatever they do!"? That would be a lot more sincere than trying to rationalize the fact that they just advertised the announcement of signing a contract with a half dead band as a day people would never forget. If it is a day I would never forget, it would be solely as the day Apple became a caricature of itself.
  - stckrpnd10 16y ago
    I think I said "marketing (as always) is brilliant as I would expect it as a nice push for iTunes & Ping." I do think their marketing is brilliant. Apologies, but that's my opinion. If you think that's incorrect, I'd ask you dictate (1) why its not and/or (2) perhaps an example of another company who does it better. That would probably be more productive + interesting than calling me out personally for my view on the subject. I do think your point about "a day people would never forget" is a fair one. Probably a bit over the top, but I think it is an exciting day for Beatles fans at least and they might never forget it.
jon_hendry 16y ago
Oh good lord, this is just asinine. As if the Beatles were the first outfit to start on a shoestring and then make it big. I'm sure there are similar stories about early jazz artists, vaudeville acts, English music hall performers, etc.
- wyclif 16y ago
  Ah, but he didn't say they were the first. The fact that others have used this template only reinforces his point IMO.
- waxman 16y ago
  Ha fair. What's unique about The Beatles is the scale at which they transformed a simple foundation into such an unrivaled commercial and artistic success. Sure, there were earlier versions. But no other act went from shoestring to massive influence in the way that The Beatles did.
  - philwelch 16y ago
    I don't understand your point here.
edw519 16y ago
Interesting analogy. A few other thoughts: - complimentary co-founders (Paul and John collaborated building stuff, George was an expert at execution on the guitar, and Ringo kept them in sync) - release early and often (in clubs) to get user feedback - the perfect combo: a smart-ass team (Beatles) with a kick-ass product (pop music) in a big-ass market (baby boomers). - the right advisers and CEO: Brian Epstein and George Martin. If it wasn't for them, the Beatles might still be bootstrapping in Hamburg.
- mgkimsal 16y ago
  "release early and often" might as well be applied to their recorded output too. How many bands today would be able to pull off 2 albums of 14 tracks each per year for 2-3 years, including tours, movies and singles separate from the albums? How many could do that with great songs being written along the way, seemingly progressing with each song?
wyclif 16y ago
Early successes like "Love Me Do", "Hold My Hand", That would be "I Wanna Hold Your Hand."
- waxman 16y ago
  Whoops. Corrected. Thanks!
- mgkimsal 16y ago
  "Hold My Hand" was from the Rutles - it looks like the Beatles simply copied a lot of the Rutles' better material.
durbin 16y ago
I think "lean startup" has moved into a close second behind "social media expert" as my most hated phrase.
brudgers 16y ago
From a organizational standpoint, the Beatles collapsed in less than ten years. Not to discount the artistic qualities of the Beatles' music, but the "Rolling Stones model" has been successfully replicated far more frequently. Pick a style, stick to it for the most part, minimize experimentation, and stay in regular contact with your customers. In other words, you're probably better off to focus on being a rock n' roll band than to be the second band to use sitars.
- philwelch 16y ago
  The Beatles aren't even the best example of a commercially successful yet artistically innovative band, when compared to acts like Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, The Who, the Grateful Dead, Rush, Queen, Iron Maiden, Radiohead, or Tool. Every single one of those bands was more innovative than the Beatles, and while none of them may have sold quite as many records as the Beatles they each maintain(ed) a very high level of popularity and success, even after changes in style. And if you're going to ask about commercial success, I would actually be curious to know whether the Beatles' album sales were really that much more lucrative than the massive arena tours half of these bands did or have been doing for decades, or the endless touring of the Grateful Dead.
macco 16y ago
Nice title for link bait. You can't compare the beatles to a company - it sounds good, but it is just wrong.
Tycho 16y ago
Apple Records: the original incubator?
dflock 16y ago
Ok, race to the bottom: how about 'Adam and Eve, the original lean..' - no hang on: 'RNA: the original lean startup'. Oh: Quarks, the.. Anyway, I won the race. Can we stop now?

21 points by waxman 16y ago

Good comparison. Did Apple perhaps think the same thing? Their marketing (as always) is brilliant as I would expect it as a nice push for iTunes & Ping. It's hard not to like "Love Me Do." If the Beatles music changed over-time, are you suggesting a pivot from the MVP? Perhaps just a change of times? Their feat for being so liked/relevant for so long is nothing to sneeze at. Is that possible for startups?

PhantomShitter 16y ago
Oh god, please just shut up. Seriously, you're getting drool everywhere.
- stckrpnd10 16y ago
  Won't stoop to this level. If you'd like to engage in reasoned, logical and most important, civil discussion, I'm game. Until then, later, PhantomShitter.
NathanKP 16y ago
I think that as far as longevity goes, both music and startups can vary in how long they maintain audience interest. For instance, there are still people today who like to listen to classical music, but that audience is still much smaller than the audience who likes the latest pop star. The Beatles have maintained a very loyal audience base, but as far as sales go they too are no longer the most popular. Just like music can slowly lose popularity as new generations become interested in new genres, so web apps lose popularity over time. But I think that decay is greatly accelerated by the fast moving nature of technology. Therefore while 50 years doesn't move the Beatles into obscurity, and a couple hundred years doesn't completely erase interest in classical music, just five or ten years can sweep away a web app and replace it with something new. It might be possible to create a startup which tries to maintain a small, very loyal group of people who love the startup from the start and continue loving it as it is for a long time, but just as in the music industry the best results are achieved by constantly updating the style and techniques to match what people want today.
- stckrpnd10 16y ago
  I agree with the above. I posed the question because it's an interesting question on how does a startup (or band) maintain its base of loyalists - especially if it stops evolving at some point. Comparing the two, I think (we'd hope) that technology will evolve enough to replace itself quicker than something like classical music. But, at some point, perhaps it won't or there's a app that can last. For instance, I'm interested in how CraigsList can keep its foothold / loyal followers? Sure has done an amazing job so far.
tybris 16y ago
Could you try to just say. "I'm a fan whatever they do!"? That would be a lot more sincere than trying to rationalize the fact that they just advertised the announcement of signing a contract with a half dead band as a day people would never forget. If it is a day I would never forget, it would be solely as the day Apple became a caricature of itself.
- stckrpnd10 16y ago
  I think I said "marketing (as always) is brilliant as I would expect it as a nice push for iTunes & Ping." I do think their marketing is brilliant. Apologies, but that's my opinion. If you think that's incorrect, I'd ask you dictate (1) why its not and/or (2) perhaps an example of another company who does it better. That would probably be more productive + interesting than calling me out personally for my view on the subject. I do think your point about "a day people would never forget" is a fair one. Probably a bit over the top, but I think it is an exciting day for Beatles fans at least and they might never forget it.

jon_hendry 16y ago

Oh good lord, this is just asinine. As if the Beatles were the first outfit to start on a shoestring and then make it big. I'm sure there are similar stories about early jazz artists, vaudeville acts, English music hall performers, etc.

wyclif 16y ago
Ah, but he didn't say they were the first. The fact that others have used this template only reinforces his point IMO.
waxman 16y ago
Ha fair. What's unique about The Beatles is the scale at which they transformed a simple foundation into such an unrivaled commercial and artistic success. Sure, there were earlier versions. But no other act went from shoestring to massive influence in the way that The Beatles did.
- philwelch 16y ago
  I don't understand your point here.

edw519 16y ago

Interesting analogy. A few other thoughts: - complimentary co-founders (Paul and John collaborated building stuff, George was an expert at execution on the guitar, and Ringo kept them in sync) - release early and often (in clubs) to get user feedback - the perfect combo: a smart-ass team (Beatles) with a kick-ass product (pop music) in a big-ass market (baby boomers). - the right advisers and CEO: Brian Epstein and George Martin. If it wasn't for them, the Beatles might still be bootstrapping in Hamburg.

mgkimsal 16y ago
"release early and often" might as well be applied to their recorded output too. How many bands today would be able to pull off 2 albums of 14 tracks each per year for 2-3 years, including tours, movies and singles separate from the albums? How many could do that with great songs being written along the way, seemingly progressing with each song?

wyclif 16y ago

Early successes like "Love Me Do", "Hold My Hand", That would be "I Wanna Hold Your Hand."

waxman 16y ago
Whoops. Corrected. Thanks!
mgkimsal 16y ago
"Hold My Hand" was from the Rutles - it looks like the Beatles simply copied a lot of the Rutles' better material.

durbin 16y ago

I think "lean startup" has moved into a close second behind "social media expert" as my most hated phrase.

brudgers 16y ago

From a organizational standpoint, the Beatles collapsed in less than ten years. Not to discount the artistic qualities of the Beatles' music, but the "Rolling Stones model" has been successfully replicated far more frequently. Pick a style, stick to it for the most part, minimize experimentation, and stay in regular contact with your customers. In other words, you're probably better off to focus on being a rock n' roll band than to be the second band to use sitars.

philwelch 16y ago
The Beatles aren't even the best example of a commercially successful yet artistically innovative band, when compared to acts like Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, The Who, the Grateful Dead, Rush, Queen, Iron Maiden, Radiohead, or Tool. Every single one of those bands was more innovative than the Beatles, and while none of them may have sold quite as many records as the Beatles they each maintain(ed) a very high level of popularity and success, even after changes in style. And if you're going to ask about commercial success, I would actually be curious to know whether the Beatles' album sales were really that much more lucrative than the massive arena tours half of these bands did or have been doing for decades, or the endless touring of the Grateful Dead.

macco 16y ago

Nice title for link bait. You can't compare the beatles to a company - it sounds good, but it is just wrong.

Tycho 16y ago

Apple Records: the original incubator?

dflock 16y ago

Ok, race to the bottom: how about 'Adam and Eve, the original lean..' - no hang on: 'RNA: the original lean startup'. Oh: Quarks, the.. Anyway, I won the race. Can we stop now?