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Such an amazing read. What positively surprised me, but perhaps shouldn't have, is that they seem almost relieved they didn't get there first. It's reassuring i

by remon 8y ago

Such an amazing read. What positively surprised me, but perhaps shouldn't have, is that they seem almost relieved they didn't get there first. It's reassuring in a way I have trouble verbalising.

lqet 8y ago
If you happen to be in the Stuttgart / Tübingen area of Germany, you should visit the experimental reactor in Haigerloch, now a museum [1]. You really get the impression that the team around Heisenberg was trying to build a reactor to generate energy, but you have to be careful: I am not sure that if they would've gotten to a state where a bomb was also feasible, they would've been openly (or even secretly) against building it. This quote by Heisenberg makes it seem like he thought about this quite a bit during his time at the Kaiser-Wilhelm-Institut, and maybe came to a personal conclusion: HEISENBERG: One can't say that. One could equally well say "That's the quickest way of ending the war.” [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forschungsreaktor_Haigerloch https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forschungsreaktor_Haigerloch
ThrowawayR2 8y ago
Some of them were relieved but some of them weren't. There was Gerlach's reaction described later in the document. "7. HAHN and HEISENBERG discussed the matter alone together. HAHN explained to HEISENBERG that he was himself very upset about the whole thing. He said he could not really understand why GERLACH had taken it so badly. HEISENBERG said he could understand it because GERLACH was the only one of them who had really wanted a German victory, because although he realized the crimes of the Nazis and disapproved of them, he could not get away from the fact that he was working for GERMANY. HAHN replied that he too loved his country and that, strange as it might appear, it was for this reason that he had hoped for her defeat. ..." Then there was also this bit: "... BAGGE: That's not true. You were there yourself at that conference in Berlin. I think it was on 8 September that everyone was asked – GEIGER, BOTHE and you, HARTECK, were there too– and everyone said that it must be done at once. Someone said 'Of course it is an open question whether one ought to do a thing like that.' Thereupon BOTHE got up and said 'Gentlemen, it must be done.' Then GEIGER got up and said 'If there is the slightest chance that it is possible – it must be done.' That was on 8 September '39. WEIZSÄCKER: I don't know how you can say that. 50% of the people were against it. HARTECK: All the scientists who understood nothing about it, all spoke against it, and of those who did understand it, one third spoke against it. ..."
- Balgair 8y ago
  What an interesting exchange here! This really highlights an issue that we have been dealing with for these last 80 years: What to do when the leader is known to be unjust/evil? Here we see that these very intelligent men all were patriots to their own people, despite their evil leader. But they all knew that this patriotism was misplaced and would make the world worse. They all knew that they should loose, despite their loyalty to their own people. In the 8 decades since, have we come to a conclusion on how to deal with this? What is a person to do when the nation goes towards evil? Must we all go Capt. America on our own[0]? The decisions of these cowards and their internal conflicts echo to this day. [0]https://external-preview.redd.it/sORWym5kfi2NIanLWbz_0nWtqPPZQTjbn3jCDm8rUIg.jpg?auto=webp&s=b807fcf22438b259c4a42760984b65948322516d https://external-preview.redd.it/sORWym5kfi2NIanLWbz_0nWtqPP...

by remon 8y ago

Such an amazing read. What positively surprised me, but perhaps shouldn't have, is that they seem almost relieved they didn't get there first. It's reassuring in a way I have trouble verbalising.

lqet 8y ago

If you happen to be in the Stuttgart / Tübingen area of Germany, you should visit the experimental reactor in Haigerloch, now a museum [1]. You really get the impression that the team around Heisenberg was trying to build a reactor to generate energy, but you have to be careful: I am not sure that if they would've gotten to a state where a bomb was also feasible, they would've been openly (or even secretly) against building it. This quote by Heisenberg makes it seem like he thought about this quite a bit during his time at the Kaiser-Wilhelm-Institut, and maybe came to a personal conclusion: HEISENBERG: One can't say that. One could equally well say "That's the quickest way of ending the war.” [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forschungsreaktor_Haigerloch https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forschungsreaktor_Haigerloch

ThrowawayR2 8y ago

Some of them were relieved but some of them weren't. There was Gerlach's reaction described later in the document. "7. HAHN and HEISENBERG discussed the matter alone together. HAHN explained to HEISENBERG that he was himself very upset about the whole thing. He said he could not really understand why GERLACH had taken it so badly. HEISENBERG said he could understand it because GERLACH was the only one of them who had really wanted a German victory, because although he realized the crimes of the Nazis and disapproved of them, he could not get away from the fact that he was working for GERMANY. HAHN replied that he too loved his country and that, strange as it might appear, it was for this reason that he had hoped for her defeat. ..." Then there was also this bit: "... BAGGE: That's not true. You were there yourself at that conference in Berlin. I think it was on 8 September that everyone was asked – GEIGER, BOTHE and you, HARTECK, were there too– and everyone said that it must be done at once. Someone said 'Of course it is an open question whether one ought to do a thing like that.' Thereupon BOTHE got up and said 'Gentlemen, it must be done.' Then GEIGER got up and said 'If there is the slightest chance that it is possible – it must be done.' That was on 8 September '39. WEIZSÄCKER: I don't know how you can say that. 50% of the people were against it. HARTECK: All the scientists who understood nothing about it, all spoke against it, and of those who did understand it, one third spoke against it. ..."

Balgair 8y ago
What an interesting exchange here! This really highlights an issue that we have been dealing with for these last 80 years: What to do when the leader is known to be unjust/evil? Here we see that these very intelligent men all were patriots to their own people, despite their evil leader. But they all knew that this patriotism was misplaced and would make the world worse. They all knew that they should loose, despite their loyalty to their own people. In the 8 decades since, have we come to a conclusion on how to deal with this? What is a person to do when the nation goes towards evil? Must we all go Capt. America on our own[0]? The decisions of these cowards and their internal conflicts echo to this day. [0]https://external-preview.redd.it/sORWym5kfi2NIanLWbz_0nWtqPPZQTjbn3jCDm8rUIg.jpg?auto=webp&s=b807fcf22438b259c4a42760984b65948322516d https://external-preview.redd.it/sORWym5kfi2NIanLWbz_0nWtqPP...