7 ms·

Study by Novo Nordisk. one of the fine companies responsible for raising insulin prices by thousands of percent.

throwitaway6512 8y ago
Read up on the matter. The culprits are pharmacy benefits managers who push producers to increase list prices while demanding obscene rebates that are never passed on to the consumers. Most producers don’t disclaim the rebates, but Lars Fruegaard (Novos CEO) is on record saying that it increased from 64% to 67% last year. So pharmacy benefits managers are pushing up the list price but less and less is getting through to the producers. The American system is rigged by the middlemen who approach consumers with ownership of “cheap drugs” because of the rebates, while they approach the producers with ownership of the consumers. As an alternative to that system Novo Nordisk is releasing cheaper insulin through a partnership with Walmart where it goes directly to the consumers. Openness around rebates will be a great first step to help lower prices, but the PBMs have gotten the industry into a reverse price war where everyone is overbidding each other on price in order to provide the larges rebate to PBMs. Something big has to change to revert that cause. Disclaimer: I work for Novo Nordisk.
- sdfj3423 8y ago
  >Read up on the matter. Slightly off-topic, but could you talk about what pharmacy benefits managers are supposed to do and actually do, for insulin especially, and their effect on the market? I Googled this term but can't make of sense of your comment based on what I've read. (The definitions of pharmacy benefits managers that I found have nothing to do with what you wrote.)
  - tokai 8y ago
    There is a paragraph in the wikipedia article on PBM[0] full of sources on this. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacy_benefit_management#Controversies_and_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacy_benefit_management#Co...
- sithlord 8y ago
  Although I appreciate the $25/vial insulin sold at walmart, its unfortunate that its such an old-school version that that it makes it almost dangerous to try and manage diabetes with it *obviously better than nothing though. I know, before insurance, it costs around $240 a vial, and I know personally I go through roughly 3 vials a month. I would guess I use a lot less insulin than a lot of others too. So I know the manufacturer isn't the only one to blame, and maybe its unfair to completely blame them, but as much as the manufacturers are donating to politicians I cant imagine they are doing a lot to fight it either.
- phkahler 8y ago
  Can they just sell direct to consumers? Cut out the pharmacy and the insurance companies. You guys could earn more while the patient pays less.
  - throwitaway6512 8y ago
    90% of diabetics are insured. If we stop selling to insurance and try to sell directly to these patients we would end up being more expensive than competitors and lose those customers. I mean you could argue that if they are paying their own insurence they could cancel and perhaps have a net saving on the insulin, but that seem very risky considering potential comorbidities of diabetes, and you’d lose all other coverage.
- peter303 8y ago
  Each level in the system INCLUDING PHYSICIANS gets a cut.Thein entice is to keep raising prices.
RPLong 8y ago
Jesus man. Novo has invented and produced more insulin in the last 30 years than any other company or organization. I get that you're disgruntled about the price of insulin; I am, too. But put the blame where it belongs, not on the people who are producing more and more insulin to accommodate more and more diabetic lifestyles and helping to drive the price down rather than up.
- sithlord 8y ago
  Per a quick google <15% of type 2 diabetics use insulin. I would say this effects more type 1 diabetics than anything. Or are you trying to say peoples lifestyles are leading them to an autoimmune disease?
  - RPLong 8y ago
    I'm saying Novo Nordisk produces insulin, and in doing so causes downward pressure on insulin prices thanks to basic economics. (When the supply of a good increases at the same level of demand, price falls.) This is true for both type 1 and type 2 diabetics. In Novo's case, they have two kinds of long-acting insulin analogue taken 1-2 times per day for both T1 and T2; they have to my knowledge the only ultra-long-acting insulin on the market, taken once every 2-3 days, most appropriate for T2, but also viable for some T1 lifestyles; they have very-rapid-acting insulin for T1 diabetics only, and they have older kinds of insulins appropriate for older patients. They offer all of these products in good supplies. I've never seen or heard of a Novo product's being unavailable at the pharmacy. So, as far as I can tell, their only influence on insulin prices is downward pressure, not upward pressure. Every new product they produce lowers the price of insulin despite industry-wide changes.
    - cazum 8y ago
      Insulin prices have inflated by about 500% over the past two decades in the United States. Novo Nordisk's profits have seen a similar rise. Now, im no economitician, but I'd wager a vial of Fiasp® that there's more than just supply and demand going on here.

Read up on the matter. The culprits are pharmacy benefits managers who push producers to increase list prices while demanding obscene rebates that are never passed on to the consumers. Most producers don’t disclaim the rebates, but Lars Fruegaard (Novos CEO) is on record saying that it increased from 64% to 67% last year. So pharmacy benefits managers are pushing up the list price but less and less is getting through to the producers. The American system is rigged by the middlemen who approach consumers with ownership of “cheap drugs” because of the rebates, while they approach the producers with ownership of the consumers. As an alternative to that system Novo Nordisk is releasing cheaper insulin through a partnership with Walmart where it goes directly to the consumers. Openness around rebates will be a great first step to help lower prices, but the PBMs have gotten the industry into a reverse price war where everyone is overbidding each other on price in order to provide the larges rebate to PBMs. Something big has to change to revert that cause. Disclaimer: I work for Novo Nordisk.

sdfj3423 8y ago
>Read up on the matter. Slightly off-topic, but could you talk about what pharmacy benefits managers are supposed to do and actually do, for insulin especially, and their effect on the market? I Googled this term but can't make of sense of your comment based on what I've read. (The definitions of pharmacy benefits managers that I found have nothing to do with what you wrote.)
- tokai 8y ago
  There is a paragraph in the wikipedia article on PBM[0] full of sources on this. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacy_benefit_management#Controversies_and_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacy_benefit_management#Co...
sithlord 8y ago
Although I appreciate the $25/vial insulin sold at walmart, its unfortunate that its such an old-school version that that it makes it almost dangerous to try and manage diabetes with it *obviously better than nothing though. I know, before insurance, it costs around $240 a vial, and I know personally I go through roughly 3 vials a month. I would guess I use a lot less insulin than a lot of others too. So I know the manufacturer isn't the only one to blame, and maybe its unfair to completely blame them, but as much as the manufacturers are donating to politicians I cant imagine they are doing a lot to fight it either.
phkahler 8y ago
Can they just sell direct to consumers? Cut out the pharmacy and the insurance companies. You guys could earn more while the patient pays less.
- throwitaway6512 8y ago
  90% of diabetics are insured. If we stop selling to insurance and try to sell directly to these patients we would end up being more expensive than competitors and lose those customers. I mean you could argue that if they are paying their own insurence they could cancel and perhaps have a net saving on the insulin, but that seem very risky considering potential comorbidities of diabetes, and you’d lose all other coverage.
peter303 8y ago
Each level in the system INCLUDING PHYSICIANS gets a cut.Thein entice is to keep raising prices.

RPLong 8y ago

Jesus man. Novo has invented and produced more insulin in the last 30 years than any other company or organization. I get that you're disgruntled about the price of insulin; I am, too. But put the blame where it belongs, not on the people who are producing more and more insulin to accommodate more and more diabetic lifestyles and helping to drive the price down rather than up.

sithlord 8y ago
Per a quick google <15% of type 2 diabetics use insulin. I would say this effects more type 1 diabetics than anything. Or are you trying to say peoples lifestyles are leading them to an autoimmune disease?
- RPLong 8y ago
  I'm saying Novo Nordisk produces insulin, and in doing so causes downward pressure on insulin prices thanks to basic economics. (When the supply of a good increases at the same level of demand, price falls.) This is true for both type 1 and type 2 diabetics. In Novo's case, they have two kinds of long-acting insulin analogue taken 1-2 times per day for both T1 and T2; they have to my knowledge the only ultra-long-acting insulin on the market, taken once every 2-3 days, most appropriate for T2, but also viable for some T1 lifestyles; they have very-rapid-acting insulin for T1 diabetics only, and they have older kinds of insulins appropriate for older patients. They offer all of these products in good supplies. I've never seen or heard of a Novo product's being unavailable at the pharmacy. So, as far as I can tell, their only influence on insulin prices is downward pressure, not upward pressure. Every new product they produce lowers the price of insulin despite industry-wide changes.
  - cazum 8y ago
    Insulin prices have inflated by about 500% over the past two decades in the United States. Novo Nordisk's profits have seen a similar rise. Now, im no economitician, but I'd wager a vial of Fiasp® that there's more than just supply and demand going on here.