3 ms·

There is a defacto standard, and telling otherwise to non-speakers is just misleading. Auslautverhärtung is part of that standard. What is the ending of the pr

by madez 8y ago

There is a defacto standard, and telling otherwise to non-speakers is just misleading. Auslautverhärtung is part of that standard. What is the ending of the pronunciation of 'und' in your region? Is it 'd' or 't'?

tom_mellior 8y ago
> There is a defacto standard Yes, for TV news announcers. > Auslautverhärtung is part of that standard. Says who? Not Wikipedia, which says that that's a regionalism and quotes sources. Where is the standard codified? > What is the ending of the pronunciation of 'und' in your region? Is it 'd' or 't'? This is a trick question: If I answer the same as you pronounce it, you'll say "see, it's standard!", and if I answer the other way, you'll say "well, it's not my fault that you don't speak Standard German™". That said, it's 'd'. If anything, it's softened further and half swallowed to say something like "un'".
- madez 8y ago
  > Where is the standard codified? You answer yourself: > Yes, for TV news announcers. > If anything, it's softened further and half swallowed to say something like "un'". Do you have a recording of that? Besides that, I wonder why you are so confrontative. I don't mean to.
  - tom_mellior 8y ago
    > You answer yourself: No, I meant, where is the standard issued by the Kultusministerkonferenz, like there is for Standard German spelling? A convention is not a standard. > Do you have a recording of that? I'd say it kind of like the Swiss German speaker here: https://forvo.com/word/und/#gsw https://forvo.com/word/und/#gsw And coming back to the original Rat/Rad distinction, https://forvo.com/word/rat/#de https://forvo.com/word/rat/#de and https://forvo.com/word/rad/#de https://forvo.com/word/rad/#de do sound different. The second "Rad" speaker (from southern Germany) makes almost no 'd' or 't' sound at all, but the same speaker pronounces "Rat" with a very hard and clear 't'.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- jackewiehose 8y ago
  >> There is a defacto standard > Yes, for TV news announcers. and for everything else on TV, netflix, etc. What else would define a standard?
  - tom_mellior 8y ago
    > What else would define a standard? Why would there have to be a standard? My point is exactly that there isn't one that captures how actual people actually speak German. There is one for written German that everyone agrees on, but not for spoken German. And that's completely fine.

by madez 8y ago

tom_mellior 8y ago

> There is a defacto standard Yes, for TV news announcers. > Auslautverhärtung is part of that standard. Says who? Not Wikipedia, which says that that's a regionalism and quotes sources. Where is the standard codified? > What is the ending of the pronunciation of 'und' in your region? Is it 'd' or 't'? This is a trick question: If I answer the same as you pronounce it, you'll say "see, it's standard!", and if I answer the other way, you'll say "well, it's not my fault that you don't speak Standard German™". That said, it's 'd'. If anything, it's softened further and half swallowed to say something like "un'".

madez 8y ago
> Where is the standard codified? You answer yourself: > Yes, for TV news announcers. > If anything, it's softened further and half swallowed to say something like "un'". Do you have a recording of that? Besides that, I wonder why you are so confrontative. I don't mean to.
- tom_mellior 8y ago
  > You answer yourself: No, I meant, where is the standard issued by the Kultusministerkonferenz, like there is for Standard German spelling? A convention is not a standard. > Do you have a recording of that? I'd say it kind of like the Swiss German speaker here: https://forvo.com/word/und/#gsw https://forvo.com/word/und/#gsw And coming back to the original Rat/Rad distinction, https://forvo.com/word/rat/#de https://forvo.com/word/rat/#de and https://forvo.com/word/rad/#de https://forvo.com/word/rad/#de do sound different. The second "Rad" speaker (from southern Germany) makes almost no 'd' or 't' sound at all, but the same speaker pronounces "Rat" with a very hard and clear 't'.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
jackewiehose 8y ago
>> There is a defacto standard > Yes, for TV news announcers. and for everything else on TV, netflix, etc. What else would define a standard?
- tom_mellior 8y ago
  > What else would define a standard? Why would there have to be a standard? My point is exactly that there isn't one that captures how actual people actually speak German. There is one for written German that everyone agrees on, but not for spoken German. And that's completely fine.