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He solicited a hostile foreign power to interfere in the 2016 elections. In many countries this would be equivalent to treason. https://www.theguardian.com/us-

He solicited a hostile foreign power to interfere in the 2016 elections. In many countries this would be equivalent to treason. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2016/jul/27/donald-trump-russia-dnc-email-hack-video https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2016/jul/27/donald...

Juliate 8y ago
I thought it was in the US?
- HillRat 8y ago
  The factual and evidentiary bar for treason is quite deliberately high in the US; in this case, if Trump colluded with the Russian government it would represent a violation of campaign laws (and a scandal of historic proportions!) but (Russia not being actively at war with the US) not treason qua treason.
  - ianai 8y ago
    I think that’s too complicated. The US has to be in a state of declared war against the country the traitor aides.
mc32 8y ago
I think he’s just implying they have more competence than the FBI in finding alleged missing emails. His comms is very non literal -and people take him literally. His whole campaign was off hand blue collar jokey remarks. Pundits understood him literally, so they failed to understand him at all. His nomination competitors also saw him in this light and ultimately failed. Mostly, J think they failed to understand his communication style1[1]. Occasio on the Dem side uses some of this same comms style for the left and it works to a degree, but the left is more uptight about being PC in comms so cant go as far afield with it. Kerry undermining foreign policy is closer to treason but no one bothers cuz he’s an old hand. Let’s say the Dems win the next cycle, but then as they try working with Russia or Iran on things, Bolton struts in on visits to give his two cents... Basically, I think many people try using a standard/traditional comms framework to parse his comms, but he uses a different more blue collar style[2]. Not frat style of a GWB, or the ancient oratorical style of Obama. Obviously people are disagreeing with me, but I'd suggest reading what some linguists and political theorists have to say. [1]https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886916311187 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S019188691... [2]https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.14318/hau6.2.009 https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.14318/hau6.2.00...
- jaibot 8y ago
  The example Thiel used in the original "seriously but not literally" argument was the wall. Of course Trump wasn't talking about a literal wall, he said, it was more of a metaphor for, you know, something. This argument was always embarrassingly stupid, but anyone still making it after Trump shut down the government for a month over literal wall construction has forfeited their right to be taken seriously at all.
  - mc32 8y ago
    I disagree with Thiel there, His base, and most independents want a literal wall (and, as he claims, Dems used to be for a wall) But his speeches are littered with these blue collar type speech patterns (boasting, exaggeration, put-downs, etc., when trying to “win” an argument).
    - ModernMech 8y ago
      > His base, and most independents want a literal wall Can you back up that most independents want a wall? The polling I've seen says otherwise. "CBS News polling from mid-November found that a majority -- 59 percent of Americans -- oppose building a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border. It's a partisan issue, though. A large majority of Republicans support the wall -- 79 percent. A majority of independents -- 66 percent -- oppose the wall, and 84 percent of Democrats are also against it." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbs-news-poll-americans-dont-support-building-the-wall/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbs-news-poll-americans-dont-su...
    - disease 8y ago
      I think you are confusing 'blue collar' with narcissism, arrogance, entitlement, laziness and stupidity.
    - dmode 8y ago
      Can we stop saying that "blue collar" people delve in boasting and exaggeration ? Most blue collar people I meet are very polite, mild mannered and focused on executing their tasks. The only people who talk like Trump are narcissists.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
koolba 8y ago
That video is the ultimate test for whether the viewer's political beliefs and biases are strong enough to override their sense of humor.
- JeremyBanks 8y ago
  Did you miss the part where Russia was actually listening and did what he said, and he had reason to know it? His "joke" was deliberate treason.
  - koolba 8y ago
    And that's why the Russians took a time machine to four months before that joke (July 2016) to hack Podesta's emails (March 2016) right?
    - JeremyBanks 8y ago
      He didn't ask them for Podesta's emails, he asked them for Clinton's, and they got right on it: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/13/us/politics/trump-russia-clinton-emails.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/13/us/politics/trump-russia-...
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - EamonnMR 8y ago
      Something similar happened with the "secret wall street speech transcripts"-not a major story, but the fact that they weren't public became a major talking point for the Trump supporters I talked to-and lo and behold they did eventually leak.
- bennesvig 8y ago
  Not sure why your comment is getting downvoted. It's absolutely true. It was obviously said as a joke.
everdev 8y ago
The scary thing is without consequences this might become the new normal.

Juliate 8y ago

I thought it was in the US?

HillRat 8y ago
The factual and evidentiary bar for treason is quite deliberately high in the US; in this case, if Trump colluded with the Russian government it would represent a violation of campaign laws (and a scandal of historic proportions!) but (Russia not being actively at war with the US) not treason qua treason.
- ianai 8y ago
  I think that’s too complicated. The US has to be in a state of declared war against the country the traitor aides.

mc32 8y ago

I think he’s just implying they have more competence than the FBI in finding alleged missing emails. His comms is very non literal -and people take him literally. His whole campaign was off hand blue collar jokey remarks. Pundits understood him literally, so they failed to understand him at all. His nomination competitors also saw him in this light and ultimately failed. Mostly, J think they failed to understand his communication style1[1]. Occasio on the Dem side uses some of this same comms style for the left and it works to a degree, but the left is more uptight about being PC in comms so cant go as far afield with it. Kerry undermining foreign policy is closer to treason but no one bothers cuz he’s an old hand. Let’s say the Dems win the next cycle, but then as they try working with Russia or Iran on things, Bolton struts in on visits to give his two cents... Basically, I think many people try using a standard/traditional comms framework to parse his comms, but he uses a different more blue collar style[2]. Not frat style of a GWB, or the ancient oratorical style of Obama. Obviously people are disagreeing with me, but I'd suggest reading what some linguists and political theorists have to say. [1]https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886916311187 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S019188691... [2]https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.14318/hau6.2.009 https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.14318/hau6.2.00...

jaibot 8y ago
The example Thiel used in the original "seriously but not literally" argument was the wall. Of course Trump wasn't talking about a literal wall, he said, it was more of a metaphor for, you know, something. This argument was always embarrassingly stupid, but anyone still making it after Trump shut down the government for a month over literal wall construction has forfeited their right to be taken seriously at all.
- mc32 8y ago
  I disagree with Thiel there, His base, and most independents want a literal wall (and, as he claims, Dems used to be for a wall) But his speeches are littered with these blue collar type speech patterns (boasting, exaggeration, put-downs, etc., when trying to “win” an argument).
  - ModernMech 8y ago
    > His base, and most independents want a literal wall Can you back up that most independents want a wall? The polling I've seen says otherwise. "CBS News polling from mid-November found that a majority -- 59 percent of Americans -- oppose building a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border. It's a partisan issue, though. A large majority of Republicans support the wall -- 79 percent. A majority of independents -- 66 percent -- oppose the wall, and 84 percent of Democrats are also against it." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbs-news-poll-americans-dont-support-building-the-wall/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbs-news-poll-americans-dont-su...
  - disease 8y ago
    I think you are confusing 'blue collar' with narcissism, arrogance, entitlement, laziness and stupidity.
  - dmode 8y ago
    Can we stop saying that "blue collar" people delve in boasting and exaggeration ? Most blue collar people I meet are very polite, mild mannered and focused on executing their tasks. The only people who talk like Trump are narcissists.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

koolba 8y ago

That video is the ultimate test for whether the viewer's political beliefs and biases are strong enough to override their sense of humor.

JeremyBanks 8y ago
Did you miss the part where Russia was actually listening and did what he said, and he had reason to know it? His "joke" was deliberate treason.
- koolba 8y ago
  And that's why the Russians took a time machine to four months before that joke (July 2016) to hack Podesta's emails (March 2016) right?
  - JeremyBanks 8y ago
    He didn't ask them for Podesta's emails, he asked them for Clinton's, and they got right on it: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/13/us/politics/trump-russia-clinton-emails.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/13/us/politics/trump-russia-...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - EamonnMR 8y ago
    Something similar happened with the "secret wall street speech transcripts"-not a major story, but the fact that they weren't public became a major talking point for the Trump supporters I talked to-and lo and behold they did eventually leak.
bennesvig 8y ago
Not sure why your comment is getting downvoted. It's absolutely true. It was obviously said as a joke.

everdev 8y ago

The scary thing is without consequences this might become the new normal.