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because it makes reading prices more difficult. Oh that steak costs 20bucks, add a tip of about 20% so thats about 24 bucks. Which is a lot more mental work tha

because it makes reading prices more difficult. Oh that steak costs 20bucks, add a tip of about 20% so thats about 24 bucks. Which is a lot more mental work than just reading 24bucks. Its also a psychiological trick, since the 20bucks is obviously cheaper than the 24, just hoping you'd forget to calculate the tip when looking at the menu. If I need to pay more than the menu indicates, or I am an asshole... yeah, I wanna get rid of that. Its not neccessary to forbid tipping, but it absolutely should not be part of their regular pay. It should be extra. A tip. Not "oh yeah, you did your job as expected"

golergka 8y ago
> Oh that steak costs 20bucks, add a tip of about 20% so thats about 24 bucks. If I find myself in a situation where the difference between $20 and $24 for a steak matters for me, I don't go to a restoraunt altogether - or choose a place with a different price range. I think it's more or less assumed that if you've gone to a place (like a bar or a restoraunt) and have glanced through the menu to get it overall price range, then you're comfortable with a ballpark price for a meal, right? > but it absolutely should not be part of their regular pay. It should be extra. A tip. That would make it much worse as a signal. (Discussed in another sub-thread).
- nicoburns 8y ago
  > I think it's more or less assumed that if you've gone to a place (like a bar or a restoraunt) and have glanced through the menu to get it overall price range, then you're comfortable with a ballpark price for a meal, right? Now that is a priveleged statement. This certainly isn't the case for people who make less money, like say waiting staff for example.
  - improbable22 8y ago
    No I wouldn't got that far, for most of us there are places we can and cannot afford. But this is how you have to regard US menu prices: you add 1/3 or so and have a ballpark figure for what it's going to cost you. Whereas ordering the "menu €15.50" is something you can safely do after checking that you have 15.50 in your pocket.
- 2muchcoffeeman 8y ago
  America is really weird that way. It’s not just tips. Even tax may not be calculated until you go to the cashier. Tips are stupid because everyone deserves to have at least a minimum wage. If they do a job they should get paid. They shouldn’t be held hostage to people who think they didn’t do their job to the standard of some random person.
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    In practice a waiter who's taking home less than minimum wage will quit before they even get fired. Think about this critically. If waiters were in practice making less than $25 for an 8 hour day as those $2.xx/hr figures would suggest, why would they keep the job? Why is it that in America being a waiter is considered a MUCH better job than bagging groceries? Why is it that pretty people wait tables and ugly people sweep floors? Its because regardless of what you think of the system, they're taking home considerably more than the minimum wage. Obviously.
- thecatspaw 8y ago
  The point wasnt that it costs 4 bucks more, its that they are hiding part of the price. You are pretty much obligated to tip in the US. Yeah it might be worse as a signal. I've seen a lot of these satisfaction meters lately, where you can press some smileyfaces when you leave the restaurant. If you add the ability to enter a table number you can kinda review your server, after you paid, in private (or at least not with the server giving you a stink eye because you didnt tip)

golergka 8y ago

> Oh that steak costs 20bucks, add a tip of about 20% so thats about 24 bucks. If I find myself in a situation where the difference between $20 and $24 for a steak matters for me, I don't go to a restoraunt altogether - or choose a place with a different price range. I think it's more or less assumed that if you've gone to a place (like a bar or a restoraunt) and have glanced through the menu to get it overall price range, then you're comfortable with a ballpark price for a meal, right? > but it absolutely should not be part of their regular pay. It should be extra. A tip. That would make it much worse as a signal. (Discussed in another sub-thread).

nicoburns 8y ago
> I think it's more or less assumed that if you've gone to a place (like a bar or a restoraunt) and have glanced through the menu to get it overall price range, then you're comfortable with a ballpark price for a meal, right? Now that is a priveleged statement. This certainly isn't the case for people who make less money, like say waiting staff for example.
- improbable22 8y ago
  No I wouldn't got that far, for most of us there are places we can and cannot afford. But this is how you have to regard US menu prices: you add 1/3 or so and have a ballpark figure for what it's going to cost you. Whereas ordering the "menu €15.50" is something you can safely do after checking that you have 15.50 in your pocket.
2muchcoffeeman 8y ago
America is really weird that way. It’s not just tips. Even tax may not be calculated until you go to the cashier. Tips are stupid because everyone deserves to have at least a minimum wage. If they do a job they should get paid. They shouldn’t be held hostage to people who think they didn’t do their job to the standard of some random person.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  In practice a waiter who's taking home less than minimum wage will quit before they even get fired. Think about this critically. If waiters were in practice making less than $25 for an 8 hour day as those $2.xx/hr figures would suggest, why would they keep the job? Why is it that in America being a waiter is considered a MUCH better job than bagging groceries? Why is it that pretty people wait tables and ugly people sweep floors? Its because regardless of what you think of the system, they're taking home considerably more than the minimum wage. Obviously.
thecatspaw 8y ago
The point wasnt that it costs 4 bucks more, its that they are hiding part of the price. You are pretty much obligated to tip in the US. Yeah it might be worse as a signal. I've seen a lot of these satisfaction meters lately, where you can press some smileyfaces when you leave the restaurant. If you add the ability to enter a table number you can kinda review your server, after you paid, in private (or at least not with the server giving you a stink eye because you didnt tip)