6 ms·

Please no. Not another messenger nobody will use. We need to improve the existing, safe solutions like Signal instead of pushing new ones out there.

yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
Signal intentionally breaks interoperability and disallows forks and alternative implementations. Let's not standardize on something that backs us into a corner.
- omnimus 8y ago
  So general public will always use fb messanger / whatsup forever. Awesome. Signal is only atleast somehow secure app that regular people use because it has great unified ux and just works. Just use Signal. Please
  - emptysongglass 8y ago
    I refuse to use a messenger that is spearheaded by a man who adamantly refuses to participate in the wider FOSS community. Moxie only wants others to play by his rules.
  - m-p-3 8y ago
    I might use it once it allows federated access, otherwise only WhisperSystem can control the fate of the protocol. I mean there are much worse company out there, but I don't want to put my eggs in the same proverbial basket.
  - mixedCase 8y ago
    Yeah no way. WhatsApp already does e2e. Signal doesn't bring anything else that's significant for me as a techie, much less the general population. Matrix can replace Slack and the various mobile messengers, meaning there's a hook for companies as well. I don't think it's ready yet, but I'd rather be a condescending preachy asshole to my friends and family only when there's a very compelling reason.
    - ForHackernews 8y ago
      Facebook ads: Coming soon to your WhatsApp conversations!
    - tapoxi 8y ago
      "The perfect is the enemy of the good." Onboarding friends and family to Matrix or XMPP is almost impossible. Signal is dead simple and automatically discovers your contacts, while being secure, open, and developed by a non-profit. Ideally I'd like it to be a federated system, but I'm not going to use untrustworthy systems like Messenger/WhatsApp because I'm not getting every feature I want.
      - anoncake 8y ago
        Signal is not open. That's the problem. You are forced to use the official client.
        omnimus 8y ago
        Thats also probably the main reason why it is sucessful. Everybody gets the same. They focus on one thing and don't delute it with funky in a year maintainer lost interest rust clients. I don't care. Give me ethical, privacy minded software not some phd experiments.
        anoncake 8y ago
        You don't care about freedom, got it.
    - technofiend 8y ago
      >Yeah no way. WhatsApp already does e2e. Signal doesn't bring anything else that's significant for me as a techie, much less the general population. You mean besides freeing them from the Facebook ecosystem? That alone is worth it to me.
    - ric2b 8y ago
      Sure, WhatsApp does e2e encryption. Guess what company is also on both of those ends? If people could stop parroting this as if fucking Facebook was trustworthy, that'd be great.
  - wlesieutre 8y ago
    "Great unified UX" does not include their Mac app unless there have been big changes since last time I tried it.
    - leevlad 8y ago
      I'm not a heavy multimedia user, but Signal's Mac and iOS apps have been working wonderfully well for me and my friends.
    - omnimus 8y ago
      You have to pardon me. By unified i meant mobile. I am not sure about state of desktop. I from time to time use mac app with no issues but Signal in my eyes is sms alternative.
      - wlesieutre 8y ago
        It works OK, but it's no iMessage. I miss using Adium as my native Mac chat client for everything, alas AIM is dead and Google killed their Jabber interoperation.
- pandemic_region 8y ago
  You mean whatsapp ?
yumoji 8y ago
You probably missed the point here. Messenger is just a use case. The license is pretty liberal and you can reuse the code in pretty much any app, not necessarily Messanger. social, dating, customer support.
jsilence 8y ago
This. Matrix/Riot is federated and works. Lets please use and support systems with open standards that have the perspective to interoperate in that space (irc, telegram bridge etc)
ex3ndr 8y ago
Moxie personally rejected to allow to use it's code in mobile apps (since they are GPL) even when we was also open source (MIT) project.
- LamaOfRuin 8y ago
  Are you seriously objecting to someone just asking for the license the code is distributed under to be followed?
  - ex3ndr 8y ago
    i am saying that he enforces that no actual fork can be done and don't allow even simplest exceptions for AppStores.
thefounder 8y ago
Signal forces you to use a phone number(unlike facetime for example)
- omnimus 8y ago
  Which requires to use apple id.
  - thefounder 8y ago
    And what's your point? An apple id can be anonymous.
izacus 8y ago
Considering the fact that Signal devs refuse to improve several glaring user experience holes (things like losing all group chats when switching phones, which are deal breakers for many people), we might need another messenger.
- burntcookie90 8y ago
  Use the built in backup and restore and you dont lose your groups. Signal's primary design direction is encryption and privacy, you're going to have to compromise somewhere.

yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago

Signal intentionally breaks interoperability and disallows forks and alternative implementations. Let's not standardize on something that backs us into a corner.

omnimus 8y ago
So general public will always use fb messanger / whatsup forever. Awesome. Signal is only atleast somehow secure app that regular people use because it has great unified ux and just works. Just use Signal. Please
- emptysongglass 8y ago
  I refuse to use a messenger that is spearheaded by a man who adamantly refuses to participate in the wider FOSS community. Moxie only wants others to play by his rules.
- m-p-3 8y ago
  I might use it once it allows federated access, otherwise only WhisperSystem can control the fate of the protocol. I mean there are much worse company out there, but I don't want to put my eggs in the same proverbial basket.
- mixedCase 8y ago
  Yeah no way. WhatsApp already does e2e. Signal doesn't bring anything else that's significant for me as a techie, much less the general population. Matrix can replace Slack and the various mobile messengers, meaning there's a hook for companies as well. I don't think it's ready yet, but I'd rather be a condescending preachy asshole to my friends and family only when there's a very compelling reason.
  - ForHackernews 8y ago
    Facebook ads: Coming soon to your WhatsApp conversations!
  - tapoxi 8y ago
    "The perfect is the enemy of the good." Onboarding friends and family to Matrix or XMPP is almost impossible. Signal is dead simple and automatically discovers your contacts, while being secure, open, and developed by a non-profit. Ideally I'd like it to be a federated system, but I'm not going to use untrustworthy systems like Messenger/WhatsApp because I'm not getting every feature I want.
    - anoncake 8y ago
      Signal is not open. That's the problem. You are forced to use the official client.
      - omnimus 8y ago
        Thats also probably the main reason why it is sucessful. Everybody gets the same. They focus on one thing and don't delute it with funky in a year maintainer lost interest rust clients. I don't care. Give me ethical, privacy minded software not some phd experiments.
        anoncake 8y ago
        You don't care about freedom, got it.
  - technofiend 8y ago
    >Yeah no way. WhatsApp already does e2e. Signal doesn't bring anything else that's significant for me as a techie, much less the general population. You mean besides freeing them from the Facebook ecosystem? That alone is worth it to me.
  - ric2b 8y ago
    Sure, WhatsApp does e2e encryption. Guess what company is also on both of those ends? If people could stop parroting this as if fucking Facebook was trustworthy, that'd be great.
- wlesieutre 8y ago
  "Great unified UX" does not include their Mac app unless there have been big changes since last time I tried it.
  - leevlad 8y ago
    I'm not a heavy multimedia user, but Signal's Mac and iOS apps have been working wonderfully well for me and my friends.
  - omnimus 8y ago
    You have to pardon me. By unified i meant mobile. I am not sure about state of desktop. I from time to time use mac app with no issues but Signal in my eyes is sms alternative.
    - wlesieutre 8y ago
      It works OK, but it's no iMessage. I miss using Adium as my native Mac chat client for everything, alas AIM is dead and Google killed their Jabber interoperation.
pandemic_region 8y ago
You mean whatsapp ?

yumoji 8y ago

You probably missed the point here. Messenger is just a use case. The license is pretty liberal and you can reuse the code in pretty much any app, not necessarily Messanger. social, dating, customer support.

jsilence 8y ago

This. Matrix/Riot is federated and works. Lets please use and support systems with open standards that have the perspective to interoperate in that space (irc, telegram bridge etc)

ex3ndr 8y ago

Moxie personally rejected to allow to use it's code in mobile apps (since they are GPL) even when we was also open source (MIT) project.

LamaOfRuin 8y ago
Are you seriously objecting to someone just asking for the license the code is distributed under to be followed?
- ex3ndr 8y ago
  i am saying that he enforces that no actual fork can be done and don't allow even simplest exceptions for AppStores.

thefounder 8y ago

Signal forces you to use a phone number(unlike facetime for example)

omnimus 8y ago
Which requires to use apple id.
- thefounder 8y ago
  And what's your point? An apple id can be anonymous.

izacus 8y ago

Considering the fact that Signal devs refuse to improve several glaring user experience holes (things like losing all group chats when switching phones, which are deal breakers for many people), we might need another messenger.

burntcookie90 8y ago
Use the built in backup and restore and you dont lose your groups. Signal's primary design direction is encryption and privacy, you're going to have to compromise somewhere.