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It's ironic that Apple might have changed their app store rules to allow a Google product (GV) into the app store in order to counter another Google product (An

by keltex 16y ago

It's ironic that Apple might have changed their app store rules to allow a Google product (GV) into the app store in order to counter another Google product (Android)

sgk284 16y ago
My understanding is that this change in policy was directly in response to pressure from the EU and FTC probes.
- trotsky 16y ago
  It's interesting the extent to which apple is pre-emptively trying to avoid anti-trust actions by allowing apps like opera and gv and backpedaling on ad network competition. I assume that's because they see it as a real possibility that an EU remedy could be something like forcing them to natively support competing app stores. That would be a huge blow to apple revenue.
  - roc 16y ago
    are you suggesting they make a notable amount of direct money off the app store? Or are you suggesting the more indirect: more app stores->less confidence, more confusion, less sales->less device sales->less revenue
    - trotsky 16y ago
      Thanks for correcting me in a polite way - I see that analysts place app store profits at only about 1% of apple's gross profits since the store opened. Huge was obviously a poor choice of words, but still the numbers are compelling - $189M in gross profit on ~$1.3B gross revenue (assuming the $1B paid out * 1.3) - 14.5% margins even while including operating costs associated with free apps. One can also assume that the 1% contribution to profit is a growing figure since it includes the entire time the app store has been open but sales have been increasing steadily. While apple calls it "a bit over break-even", that has always been the line with itunes as well yet there are various pieces of evidence that suggest that is somewhat of a fib. I think you make an even better point than I was thinking of though. Apple clearly values the tight control they have over applications highly. Whatever their motivations there - ux, security, platform lock in, vertical integration, control over competitors - they surely believe that ceding that control would have a negative effect on their bottom line.
grandalf 16y ago
It is ironic but I think there is some truth to it. The gmail client for android is way better than anything available for iPhone, and so ultimately unless Apple is willing to offer apps that are roughly as good, it might as well allow users to use Google's. I could see someone choosing Android just for the gmail app if email was very important and the other iPhone advantages didn't outweigh it. Mail.app for iPhone reminds me of the bad old days of email.
- loewenskind 16y ago
  In what way is the gmail client better? I'm using the Mail app on iPhone 4 and I love it. Joined inboxes, threaded conversations. The only thing missing for me is the ability to add rules locally.
  - grandalf 16y ago
    A few things I've notice (and why I stopped using it): - It doesn't show new mail when it arrives - It doesn't do threaded conversations so they're compatible with the gmail web app - Its address book autocomplete is not as good - It stores messages locally so you can't search past mails - It does not hide the quoted text the same way gmail normally does, which sort of breaks that feature when you switch between mail.app and web based gmail. edit: Maybe I'll try it again since you love it so much. It's possible that my initial frustrations led me to write it off prematurely (plus, I heard it's getting updates in IOS 4.2)
    - loewenskind 16y ago
      >- It doesn't show new mail when it arrives That depends on the push function. If the server supports push then you get the mail when it arrives. Mobileme works out of the box, as does exchange. Sadly, if you want this to work with gmail you have to set up gmail as an exchange account. >- It doesn't do threaded conversations so they're compatible with the gmail web app Not sure what you mean, it doesn't do them the same way as the gmail app? I haven't looked at that but it does do them and it seems to work pretty well. >- Its address book autocomplete is not as good It works well for me, but maybe I don't have as many contacts. I only have about 90 or so. >- It stores messages locally so you can't search past mails It searches locally but there is a button at the end of the results called "search on server". Does this not do what you want? >- It does not hide the quoted text the same way gmail normally does, which sort of breaks that feature when you switch between mail.app and web based gmail. Yea, that's true. That's a killer feature of gmail. >Maybe I'll try it again since you love it so much. I don't love it, I just find it better than most clients I've used. I just asked because I was genuinely curious what was better because it must be pretty dramatic if it makes the decent iPhone mail app look so bad.
slowpoison 16y ago
I think the current GV app is really a stripped down version of the one that Google originally planned. Didn't Apple lambast the original GV because it took over the standard phone functions.

by keltex 16y ago

It's ironic that Apple might have changed their app store rules to allow a Google product (GV) into the app store in order to counter another Google product (Android)

sgk284 16y ago

My understanding is that this change in policy was directly in response to pressure from the EU and FTC probes.

trotsky 16y ago
It's interesting the extent to which apple is pre-emptively trying to avoid anti-trust actions by allowing apps like opera and gv and backpedaling on ad network competition. I assume that's because they see it as a real possibility that an EU remedy could be something like forcing them to natively support competing app stores. That would be a huge blow to apple revenue.
- roc 16y ago
  are you suggesting they make a notable amount of direct money off the app store? Or are you suggesting the more indirect: more app stores->less confidence, more confusion, less sales->less device sales->less revenue
  - trotsky 16y ago
    Thanks for correcting me in a polite way - I see that analysts place app store profits at only about 1% of apple's gross profits since the store opened. Huge was obviously a poor choice of words, but still the numbers are compelling - $189M in gross profit on ~$1.3B gross revenue (assuming the $1B paid out * 1.3) - 14.5% margins even while including operating costs associated with free apps. One can also assume that the 1% contribution to profit is a growing figure since it includes the entire time the app store has been open but sales have been increasing steadily. While apple calls it "a bit over break-even", that has always been the line with itunes as well yet there are various pieces of evidence that suggest that is somewhat of a fib. I think you make an even better point than I was thinking of though. Apple clearly values the tight control they have over applications highly. Whatever their motivations there - ux, security, platform lock in, vertical integration, control over competitors - they surely believe that ceding that control would have a negative effect on their bottom line.

grandalf 16y ago

It is ironic but I think there is some truth to it. The gmail client for android is way better than anything available for iPhone, and so ultimately unless Apple is willing to offer apps that are roughly as good, it might as well allow users to use Google's. I could see someone choosing Android just for the gmail app if email was very important and the other iPhone advantages didn't outweigh it. Mail.app for iPhone reminds me of the bad old days of email.

loewenskind 16y ago
In what way is the gmail client better? I'm using the Mail app on iPhone 4 and I love it. Joined inboxes, threaded conversations. The only thing missing for me is the ability to add rules locally.
- grandalf 16y ago
  A few things I've notice (and why I stopped using it): - It doesn't show new mail when it arrives - It doesn't do threaded conversations so they're compatible with the gmail web app - Its address book autocomplete is not as good - It stores messages locally so you can't search past mails - It does not hide the quoted text the same way gmail normally does, which sort of breaks that feature when you switch between mail.app and web based gmail. edit: Maybe I'll try it again since you love it so much. It's possible that my initial frustrations led me to write it off prematurely (plus, I heard it's getting updates in IOS 4.2)
  - loewenskind 16y ago
    >- It doesn't show new mail when it arrives That depends on the push function. If the server supports push then you get the mail when it arrives. Mobileme works out of the box, as does exchange. Sadly, if you want this to work with gmail you have to set up gmail as an exchange account. >- It doesn't do threaded conversations so they're compatible with the gmail web app Not sure what you mean, it doesn't do them the same way as the gmail app? I haven't looked at that but it does do them and it seems to work pretty well. >- Its address book autocomplete is not as good It works well for me, but maybe I don't have as many contacts. I only have about 90 or so. >- It stores messages locally so you can't search past mails It searches locally but there is a button at the end of the results called "search on server". Does this not do what you want? >- It does not hide the quoted text the same way gmail normally does, which sort of breaks that feature when you switch between mail.app and web based gmail. Yea, that's true. That's a killer feature of gmail. >Maybe I'll try it again since you love it so much. I don't love it, I just find it better than most clients I've used. I just asked because I was genuinely curious what was better because it must be pretty dramatic if it makes the decent iPhone mail app look so bad.

slowpoison 16y ago

I think the current GV app is really a stripped down version of the one that Google originally planned. Didn't Apple lambast the original GV because it took over the standard phone functions.