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> I don't think anyone wants to use Helm. Here is why everyone should use Helm: Helm 2.0 introduced package as a first-class concept for Kubernetes and create

by alexk 8y ago

> I don't think anyone wants to use Helm. Here is why everyone should use Helm: Helm 2.0 introduced package as a first-class concept for Kubernetes and created the standard to distribute applications, thanks to Helm thousands of people could discover and collaborate on cloud-native deployments of the open source software https://github.com/helm/charts/tree/master/stable https://github.com/helm/charts/tree/master/stable published and managed by organizations and contributors all over the world. Helm 3.0 keeps innovating, it adopts the most forward-thinking approach to package management and Kubernetes config management by using higher level domain specific language based on Lua to create expressive package management system: https://sweetcode.io/a-first-look-at-the-helm-3-plan/ https://sweetcode.io/a-first-look-at-the-helm-3-plan/ Helm is also backed by CNCF[1] and is the best choice so far for organizations to create a reproducible CI/CD pipeline in a Kubernetes cluster. [1] https://www.cncf.io/blog/2018/06/01/cncf-to-host-helm/ https://www.cncf.io/blog/2018/06/01/cncf-to-host-helm/

jhanschoo 8y ago
I'm not very fond of helm's seemingly imperative approach, though. Am I mistaken about that?
the_duke 8y ago
Since you seem to be in the know, what kind of timeline are we looking at for Helm 3? I've been waiting for it for over a year now...
jrockway 8y ago
That is a lot of buzzwords. I don't really trust Helm to do anything that's actually useful in the long term. It will get something running very quickly, but whether or not it's maintainable, I am yet to be sure of. For example, very early on, I installed the helm chart for prometheus. Now I want it to live in the kube-system namespace because I am tired of seeing its resources in the default namespace. For some reason, I highly doubt that changing values.yaml to change the namespace is going to do anything other than give me a fresh instance of prometheus running in another namespace. It's not going to use the already allocated storage volume to satisfy the persistent volume claim in the new namespace. It's not going to update the other stuff in my cluster to refer to prometheus-pushgateway.kube-system.svc.cluster.local. It's not going to update my Grafana dashboards to refer to the new namespace, even though I installed Grafana with Helm! So what did I really gain? Helm isn't giving me the ability to manage the long-term lifecycle of third-party software. It just explodes some API objects all over my cluster and lets me delete most of them automatically. That's all it does. I get why Helm is popular. You can get some piece of software running in Kubernetes with minimal effort. I would have never successfully made some random complex piece of software work correctly in Kubernetes on day 1, especially using something that assumes you deeply understand the core API objects like kustomize does. What that boils down to is that Helm doesn't go far enough, and in its current state, just encourages people to make mistakes early.

by alexk 8y ago

jhanschoo 8y ago

I'm not very fond of helm's seemingly imperative approach, though. Am I mistaken about that?

the_duke 8y ago

Since you seem to be in the know, what kind of timeline are we looking at for Helm 3? I've been waiting for it for over a year now...

jrockway 8y ago

That is a lot of buzzwords. I don't really trust Helm to do anything that's actually useful in the long term. It will get something running very quickly, but whether or not it's maintainable, I am yet to be sure of. For example, very early on, I installed the helm chart for prometheus. Now I want it to live in the kube-system namespace because I am tired of seeing its resources in the default namespace. For some reason, I highly doubt that changing values.yaml to change the namespace is going to do anything other than give me a fresh instance of prometheus running in another namespace. It's not going to use the already allocated storage volume to satisfy the persistent volume claim in the new namespace. It's not going to update the other stuff in my cluster to refer to prometheus-pushgateway.kube-system.svc.cluster.local. It's not going to update my Grafana dashboards to refer to the new namespace, even though I installed Grafana with Helm! So what did I really gain? Helm isn't giving me the ability to manage the long-term lifecycle of third-party software. It just explodes some API objects all over my cluster and lets me delete most of them automatically. That's all it does. I get why Helm is popular. You can get some piece of software running in Kubernetes with minimal effort. I would have never successfully made some random complex piece of software work correctly in Kubernetes on day 1, especially using something that assumes you deeply understand the core API objects like kustomize does. What that boils down to is that Helm doesn't go far enough, and in its current state, just encourages people to make mistakes early.