3 ms·

> many drugs are illegal not because of the harm they cause to the user but because of the harm the user causes to others, and it's not feasible to make a "safe

by moosey 8y ago

> many drugs are illegal not because of the harm they cause to the user but because of the harm the user causes to others, and it's not feasible to make a "safer" dose because the nature of these drugs encourages addicts to use larger or stronger doses over time. I'm interested in how making them illegal abates this? It seems like a non-sequitur to me. Further, even after making many natural drugs in categories that did this, we legalized tons of opioids made by US manufacturers, so that doesn't even follow with the actual law in the US. Further, using alcohol regularly has a similar effect, and I'll bet you it's far more dangerous over time. I will suggest instead that drugs are illegal for two reasons: Moralization, which is basically randomness applied to ethics; and because it allows our justice system to pick and choose who to imprison.

Pharmakon 8y ago
I will suggest instead that drugs are illegal for two reasons: Moralization, which is basically randomness applied to ethics; and because it allows our justice system to pick and choose who to imprison. A third reason is that generally speaking, they cause a lot of pain and suffering. I’m against prohibition, but dismissing it entirely as moralizing and social control misses the very real dangers of drug abuse, and their attendant social costs. It’s just that the only thing worse than the harm caused by drugs, is the harm caused by drugs and their prohibition. Legalizing drugs is just step 1 though. Step 2 has to be a massive overhaul of treatment for addicts and the mentally ill.
- Haga 8y ago
  Moralization is not random, the action is usually any behavior to protect your offspring at all cost in all scenarios. Millions of parents vote for anti drug and war on drug policies, to increase the chances of theire kids having grandkids. And it's a understandable goal, e even though it's heresy for a libertarian.
- moosey 8y ago
  > they cause a lot of pain and suffering Nothing compared to the US prison system, which is where we send people. It is entirely moralizing. Our prison system is the way that it is because of a specific morality in the US, just as so many laws and political positions that exist. There is nothing ethical about it. If you want people who are addicted to drugs to be able to free themselves from the cycle in a country with a prison system like ours designed to cause fear, you must make the drugs legal, so that coming forward isn't a permanent personal threat.
  - Torgo 8y ago
    The pain and suffering is also shouldered by people around the substance abuser. While I don't disagree with you about prison, if much of innocent parties' pain can be abated by taking the abuser out of the system, then it is not just moralizing.
comicjk 8y ago
I agree with most of what you say, but it's not true that "we legalized tons of opioids made by US manufacturers" - being a prescription drug is far from being legal. Recall that fentanyl, morphine, amphetamines, and even meth are available from doctors, while being quite distinctly illegal in any other context. If anything, this reinforces your point about moralization and selective criminalization. The same chemical can be a medicine or a crime, and most of the difference comes down to money and class.

by moosey 8y ago

Pharmakon 8y ago

I will suggest instead that drugs are illegal for two reasons: Moralization, which is basically randomness applied to ethics; and because it allows our justice system to pick and choose who to imprison. A third reason is that generally speaking, they cause a lot of pain and suffering. I’m against prohibition, but dismissing it entirely as moralizing and social control misses the very real dangers of drug abuse, and their attendant social costs. It’s just that the only thing worse than the harm caused by drugs, is the harm caused by drugs and their prohibition. Legalizing drugs is just step 1 though. Step 2 has to be a massive overhaul of treatment for addicts and the mentally ill.

Haga 8y ago
Moralization is not random, the action is usually any behavior to protect your offspring at all cost in all scenarios. Millions of parents vote for anti drug and war on drug policies, to increase the chances of theire kids having grandkids. And it's a understandable goal, e even though it's heresy for a libertarian.
moosey 8y ago
> they cause a lot of pain and suffering Nothing compared to the US prison system, which is where we send people. It is entirely moralizing. Our prison system is the way that it is because of a specific morality in the US, just as so many laws and political positions that exist. There is nothing ethical about it. If you want people who are addicted to drugs to be able to free themselves from the cycle in a country with a prison system like ours designed to cause fear, you must make the drugs legal, so that coming forward isn't a permanent personal threat.
- Torgo 8y ago
  The pain and suffering is also shouldered by people around the substance abuser. While I don't disagree with you about prison, if much of innocent parties' pain can be abated by taking the abuser out of the system, then it is not just moralizing.

comicjk 8y ago

I agree with most of what you say, but it's not true that "we legalized tons of opioids made by US manufacturers" - being a prescription drug is far from being legal. Recall that fentanyl, morphine, amphetamines, and even meth are available from doctors, while being quite distinctly illegal in any other context. If anything, this reinforces your point about moralization and selective criminalization. The same chemical can be a medicine or a crime, and most of the difference comes down to money and class.