7 ms·

then they realized they could get away without even that modicum of respect to the clients, because, well they run a legal monopoly. Either you only have one op

by gcb0 8y ago

then they realized they could get away without even that modicum of respect to the clients, because, well they run a legal monopoly. Either you only have one option (fiber, or even cable in some markets) or the 3 to 4 offerings have the same "deals" across the board. I try very hard to be civil on HN, but everyone defending artifical data caps are a bunch of idiots (in the true sense of the greek work: a person that can't live in society and should be voted to be ostracized).

hueving 8y ago
>I try very hard to be civil on HN, but everyone defending artifical data caps are a bunch of idiots Not that hard I guess. Data caps are the only reason you have affordable consumer internet because they allow a significant amount of oversubscription which matches the mostly-idle bursty behavior of consumers. You can get leased lines from ISPs with no caps easily. You just won't like the real price that comes with guaranteeing a customer that kind of bandwidth.
- crankylinuxuser 8y ago
  And why should content creators also be the ones who control the very last mile of the internet in the USA? You don't think there's something very wrong with that arrangement? Back in the day, we used to take a dim look at companies who amassed horizontal or vertical monopolies, and broke them up. Well, they're like the replicators from Stargate SG1 and have reassembled into something even uglier. And yet when we discuss this, you fall back on caps and justification by contention ratio... But why are their services zero rated, eh? Of course we know why - it's to kill the opposing services like Netflix, Hulu, or others... except for their services! Logically, the actual lines should belong to the people (government). The money We've(royal) paid has been above and beyond what it would have cost for a REMC-style internet-ification. I don't want the US or State govts being ISPs themselves, but muni style arrangements have worked out well in the past - except when Comcast and ATT haven't lobbied them out of existence.
  - rayiner 8y ago
    > And yet when we discuss this, you fall back on caps and justification by contention ratio... But why are their services zero rated, eh? Of course we know why - it's to kill the opposing services like Netflix, Hulu, or others... except for their services! I mean there is also the fact that TV and broadband run on entirey separate infrastructure that just happens to share a physical wire. On FiOS, for example, TV is a separate wavelength of laser and is a broadcast signal, not an IP signal.
    - AnthonyMouse 8y ago
      How can it be entirely separate infrastructure if it uses the same physical wire? Using those wavelengths for that leaves less carrying capacity for internet data. It's in direct contention for the same resource.
      - shmerl 8y ago
        They don't need to compete for the wire for this to be a problem, they just need to compete for the viewer, which they do.
      - rayiner 8y ago
        The video signal is muxed onto the fiber after the OLT, so the only shared portion of the infrastructure is the passive fiber. That’s effectively an uncontended resource. The single mode fiber has vastly more capacity than you can actually use with the active components of the network. Your limit in data speeds is from the OLT, and the Ethernet ports those OLTs are plugged into, none of which is shared with TV.
        AnthonyMouse 8y ago
        "The fiber has plenty of capacity" seems like an argument against data caps, considering that getting/keeping the fiber in the ground is the major cost. The whole concept of separation seems like a dodge. Is there any real advantage to using separate equipment for TV vs. using the same hardware resources to provide more data capacity and using IP multicast? Or is that what they are doing, and just doing it on separate hardware in order to claim separation?
- gcb0 8y ago
  data caps are not the reason. $5bi of free government money is. Remember that one?

by gcb0 8y ago

hueving 8y ago

>I try very hard to be civil on HN, but everyone defending artifical data caps are a bunch of idiots Not that hard I guess. Data caps are the only reason you have affordable consumer internet because they allow a significant amount of oversubscription which matches the mostly-idle bursty behavior of consumers. You can get leased lines from ISPs with no caps easily. You just won't like the real price that comes with guaranteeing a customer that kind of bandwidth.

crankylinuxuser 8y ago
And why should content creators also be the ones who control the very last mile of the internet in the USA? You don't think there's something very wrong with that arrangement? Back in the day, we used to take a dim look at companies who amassed horizontal or vertical monopolies, and broke them up. Well, they're like the replicators from Stargate SG1 and have reassembled into something even uglier. And yet when we discuss this, you fall back on caps and justification by contention ratio... But why are their services zero rated, eh? Of course we know why - it's to kill the opposing services like Netflix, Hulu, or others... except for their services! Logically, the actual lines should belong to the people (government). The money We've(royal) paid has been above and beyond what it would have cost for a REMC-style internet-ification. I don't want the US or State govts being ISPs themselves, but muni style arrangements have worked out well in the past - except when Comcast and ATT haven't lobbied them out of existence.
- rayiner 8y ago
  > And yet when we discuss this, you fall back on caps and justification by contention ratio... But why are their services zero rated, eh? Of course we know why - it's to kill the opposing services like Netflix, Hulu, or others... except for their services! I mean there is also the fact that TV and broadband run on entirey separate infrastructure that just happens to share a physical wire. On FiOS, for example, TV is a separate wavelength of laser and is a broadcast signal, not an IP signal.
  - AnthonyMouse 8y ago
    How can it be entirely separate infrastructure if it uses the same physical wire? Using those wavelengths for that leaves less carrying capacity for internet data. It's in direct contention for the same resource.
    - shmerl 8y ago
      They don't need to compete for the wire for this to be a problem, they just need to compete for the viewer, which they do.
    - rayiner 8y ago
      The video signal is muxed onto the fiber after the OLT, so the only shared portion of the infrastructure is the passive fiber. That’s effectively an uncontended resource. The single mode fiber has vastly more capacity than you can actually use with the active components of the network. Your limit in data speeds is from the OLT, and the Ethernet ports those OLTs are plugged into, none of which is shared with TV.
      - AnthonyMouse 8y ago
        "The fiber has plenty of capacity" seems like an argument against data caps, considering that getting/keeping the fiber in the ground is the major cost. The whole concept of separation seems like a dodge. Is there any real advantage to using separate equipment for TV vs. using the same hardware resources to provide more data capacity and using IP multicast? Or is that what they are doing, and just doing it on separate hardware in order to claim separation?
gcb0 8y ago
data caps are not the reason. $5bi of free government money is. Remember that one?