11 ms·

Living Alone Can Be Deadly

133 points by montalbano 8y ago

will_brown 8y ago
It seems odd this article concludes the solution to isolation is redesigning cities to force social interaction. Whereas the rich are more immune to the negative health effects of isolation. Maybe instead the economy should be redesigned so the haves vs have nots isn’t so extreme and force social interaction amount the two groups. But most importantly this would combat the stress (cortisol) such a large segment of society has as a result of financial burdens and debt.
- CryptoPunk 8y ago
  Are you sure it's proposing that cities force social interaction? Could it be a proposal to provide more options for living arrangements with a lot of social interaction, like group homes? Such arrangements do force interaction, but people would be choosing to put themselves in that situation, and would be able to get themselves out of the situation by simply moving to another apartment in the same city.
akeck 8y ago
An anecdatum from the flu thread on Reddit: "3 years ago, my sister found me unresponsive covered in my own vomit and shit in my bed. Called 911 and my life was saved. All I had was the flu, but it had caused brain swelling. The last thing I remember was going to sleep the night before, feeling perfectly fine. The ONLY reason I'm alive is because I was supposed to dog-sit for my sister's best friend starting that day. When she couldn't get a hold of me, she notified my sister, who came to my house to check on me."
bitL 8y ago
I think this is one of the cases where observing past and using it to predict future adds a bias that's no longer valid these days. Most people I know that are alone seem to be happy, the ones in relationships seem a mixed bag (some oscillating between high highs and low lows). Again, there is surely bias among people I meet (I can't make a stratified dataset with perfectly balanced classes), though it might be an indicator that socioeconomic and health conditions changed dramatically recently, invalidating long-term trends.
novia 8y ago
Living Alone Can Be Deadly For Men https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/new-study-claims-being-a-widow-is-good-for-your-health-a6997521.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/new-study-claims-being...
diogenescynic 8y ago
This reminds me of the 'man eating alone' scene from The Lobster.
NeoBasilisk 8y ago
what is correlation and causation?
m3kw9 8y ago
It’s called helping each other, you can extrapolate from there
wenc 8y ago
Quote: "Living alone was not associated with dying prematurely for those in the highest socioeconomic group — the 19 percent of study participants who had a university degree or worked in an executive position. But for the rest, the lower the socioeconomic status, the higher the risk for death. The authors emphasize that the remaining 81 percent of the population was not deprived or living in poverty, but consisted mainly of middle-class and skilled and unskilled workers." Socioeconomic class moderates mortality even among the loners? That's not unexpected. That said, I wonder if Danish society contributes particularly to loneliness. Most happiness studies (a trend in recent years) place Denmark at the top of happiness indices, but my understanding is happiness in this context often doesn't reflect an emotional well-being among individuals, only a quantitative aggregate one. Much has been said about the Danish concept of hygge (cozyness) but Scandinavian life in general is very privatized. I wonder if Danish social connectedness metrics are perhaps not so stellar.
- eecc 8y ago
  Watch https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Swedish_Theory_of_Love https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Swedish_Theory_of_Love Ok, it’s not precisely the same country but they’re very close
- renholder 8y ago
  >Most happiness studies (a trend in recent years) place Denmark at the top of happiness indices... I wonder if the "happiness" part is a misnomer and should actually be "contentment". Having experienced the Nordic/Scandinavian cutlures, myself (Sweden), they are pretty private but it's not impossible to have a social life - compared to, say, Ireland. I think the general demeanor of Scandinavians is pretty jovial but this also seems to be geographically-dependent (e.g.: city versus "country"). All of that being said, it's no surprise that the more money you have, the longer you live. I have a suspicion that it is related to the lesser amounts of stressors regarding to any fiscal matters. (Not saying that no one stresses about fiscal matters in that 19% but if it is due to fewer fiscal stressors, then it might be worth noting.) I wonder what the break-down of the cardiovascular health group is...
  - 8y ago
RyanRies 8y ago
Having someone else around to call an ambulance for you when you're having a heart attack can have a large effect on the outcome. Having someone else around to nag you into going to the doctor when you otherwise might not go, etc.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  Having someone else around who's a negative influence on dietary, entertainment, and general physical activity choices can have a large effect on the probability you'll need an ambulance.
  - mreome 8y ago
    Having someone else around who's a positive influence on dietary, entertainment, and general physical activity choices can have a large effect on the probability you'll need an ambulance.
    - newnewpdro 8y ago
      Sure, and the other half of that pair is being harmed by the imbalance. Finding parity is quite difficult, particularly when you already take good care of yourself.
      - mreome 8y ago
        Social interaction and co-habitation is not a zero-sum game. I'm sure we're both working from our own personal experience here, but for me I've always found living with a room-mate or significant other to be a net positive for both parties. It's easier to cook healthy home meals for two then one, both in terms of purchasing/portioning and the ability to split up or alternate the work. It's easier to not skip workouts or social events when you hold each other accountable for them. The mental and emotional stimulation that comes from having someone else to talk to and do things with rather than passively consuming mass media alone. Sure, it's possible for someone with bad personal habits to be a negative influence on someone who struggles to maintain their own good habits, but two people with generally good habits can easily create positive feedback that allows them both to improve.
Qub3d 8y ago
I don't know... this feels like yet another article abusing statistics to generate a headline. There are just so many factors that could have a high comorbidity. The bigger issue I see is not living alone, but living without a social net -- I personally really enjoy living alone, but I also have regular social gatherings in my life.
- gowld 8y ago
  Anecdotal, but a friend of mine died because he had a seizure at home and no one stopped by to check in for over a day. If he had a housemate, he would have been far more likely to be found and rescued.
- harryf 8y ago
  As a single father of two teenagers who is - according to my kids - doing a good job, it’s almost like I’m societies worst nightmare. The idea that men could bring up children alone seems to terrify people, I assume because it puts a bunch of social norms in question like “every man must have a woman in his life or he’s going to self-destruct”.
  - munk-a 8y ago
    I don't think that goes against the premise of the article though, having two teenagers (or any child over... 7ish?) negates a lot of the risk of having a sudden heart attack and being unable to get yourself timely care or finding yourself socially isolated. Your relationship with your teenagers isn't going to fill the same space as an S.O. or even a close friend, but having social interaction is important for other reasons, and your interactions with them will fulfill that need.
- otakucode 8y ago
  A few years ago there was an extremely broad study of all males living within a town, totalling 900 men in all. They monitored orgasm frequency over decades. As a result they were able to show that those who were below average in their orgasm frequency had a 50% higher chance of dying from any cause. That was alongside all sorts of findings about the general health dangers of abstinence. I imagine there is likely a pretty strong correlation between those who live alone and those who are starved for orgasm.
ataturk 8y ago
More NYT propaganda. Ignore. Like cable tv--just ignore it.
newnewpdro 8y ago
I've found it very difficult to find people to cohabitate with who aren't bringing down the living standards important to me. From long-term girlfriends to random folks I shared rent with when I was in the SF Bay area, it has always been a regression from what I have living alone.
- satokema_work 8y ago
  Congratulations. If you have the slack to maximize these things, you're probably in the top tier of statistics of this study that get X'd out to make their point. This leads me to this: it's interesting to think about which way the correlation goes - are these early deaths caused by living alone, or is it a symptom of other things wrong in their life that lead to a lack of girlfriends and random people and family in their life?
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    No doubt there's going to be some amount of men living exceptionally unhealthy lifestyles to the point of alienation.
- xiphias2 8y ago
  What are these living standards? Bay area is one of the worst places to find a girlfriend though, so if this is important for you, you need to move to a place with different supply/demand balance.
  - wffurr 8y ago
    I don't know about the GP, but it's shocking how poorly many people pick up their things after themselves, leave messes in common areas, etc. I don't miss having roommates at all.
    - xiphias2 8y ago
      I see, yes, that's something important to filter for. Also having a cleaning lady is critical when you're working at an office job. Anyways I have a girlfriend who is much more organized than me, and she happily does things after me as well (in return I bring her to restaurants all the time, and paying for everything in our lives, as I have much higher income). If you find a great partner, life gets easier.
8bitsrule 8y ago
"“It’s paradoxical that the more we live in concentrated populations in big cities, the more people are living alone ... Social isolation is a global problem" Not paradoxical at all, considering the rash of entire old neighborhoods being torn down, to be replaced with exercise shoppes and bubble-tea shoppes and rectilinearly-architected enclaves of mere empty-headed dormitude. Faux-wood-trimmed concrete festooned with dark-blue surveillance knobs and plastic trees are fairly inadequate stand-ins for soul. So ... how do we like this music, hmmm?
kokokokoko 8y ago
> “It’s paradoxical that the more we live in concentrated populations in big cities, the more people are living alone” said the lead author, Dr. Magnus T. Jensen How is that in any way paradoxical? High density living causes people to subconsciously value individual connections less as they are surrounded by people in their day to day lives. This causes them to seek out alone time because their bodies are fatigued from the constant interaction. And causes them to have less social energy to devote to the people close to them. High density living performs the same trick on the brain that social media does. It fools a persons mind into thinking they are not alone, but in reality they are actually spending all of that time without individual close human connection. In reality they are spending all of their time alone. Along with that comes all physiological aspects of that constant alone time. Things like depression and general lack of emotional depth that we know has a significant effect on life expectancy.
- yesenadam 8y ago
  >High density living causes people to subconsciously value individual connections less That doesn't sound right to me - what makes you say that?
- tomatotomato37 8y ago
  I think it's less that and more so that those who buy large houses in the low-density outskirts simply have extra rooms for elder parents/divorcing relatives/recently graduated children/homeless friends/etc.
dana321 8y ago
Remember the magical formula: Correlation != Causation
- bcit-cst 8y ago
  Good point. But you know what proves causation ? Nothing. https://www.iep.utm.edu/hume-cau/#H6 https://www.iep.utm.edu/hume-cau/#H6
  - dana321 8y ago
    Cause and effect are simple to discern with one variable (like pushing a ball), with multiple variables everything becomes increasingly complicated. Kind of why drugs don't work in the same way with everyone. Too many subtle differences (blood type, chromosomes, dna, age, hormone levels, deficiencies etc.)
iheartpotatoes 8y ago
63 to 95 years old? Hell, the first month I moved cross-country (at 22) I got really, really sick and couldn't get out of bed to buy groceries. After the third day I considered asking my estranged dad (who I was getting away from) to fly cross the country, or asking my landlord for help, or calling the hospital or 911. I literally had NO idea what to do. I wasn't dying I just couldn't stand up without barfing or getting dizzy. It was incredibly scary for a young kid trying to find a job and start a new life. I immediately saw the value in the door-to-door checkup services for the elderly.
jayeshsalvi 8y ago
The news item is based on single study performed in single country of small size with 3346 men as sample set. Hardly representative.
somberi 8y ago
Personal story: When I first moved to the USA from India, 20 years ago, I sought the help of a realtor to find a house in New England Area. He figured I was earning more than his clientele base and started showing me houses which were secluded and touted it as a huge plus. My reaction then (now I am sympathetic to isolation as a luxury and privilege) was that he was showing me such dives because I was a minority. In India, you were never far away from people and isolation was a novelty that you dabbled with in your vacation time (mountain resorts and such). As life would have it, I ended up in Manhattan later in life.
charliebrownau 8y ago
Maybe if your old like 60-100 or disabled But if your 18-58 Living by yourself in a 1 bedroom place is better then sharing or married

133 points by montalbano 8y ago

It seems odd this article concludes the solution to isolation is redesigning cities to force social interaction. Whereas the rich are more immune to the negative health effects of isolation. Maybe instead the economy should be redesigned so the haves vs have nots isn’t so extreme and force social interaction amount the two groups. But most importantly this would combat the stress (cortisol) such a large segment of society has as a result of financial burdens and debt.

CryptoPunk 8y ago
Are you sure it's proposing that cities force social interaction? Could it be a proposal to provide more options for living arrangements with a lot of social interaction, like group homes? Such arrangements do force interaction, but people would be choosing to put themselves in that situation, and would be able to get themselves out of the situation by simply moving to another apartment in the same city.

akeck 8y ago

An anecdatum from the flu thread on Reddit: "3 years ago, my sister found me unresponsive covered in my own vomit and shit in my bed. Called 911 and my life was saved. All I had was the flu, but it had caused brain swelling. The last thing I remember was going to sleep the night before, feeling perfectly fine. The ONLY reason I'm alive is because I was supposed to dog-sit for my sister's best friend starting that day. When she couldn't get a hold of me, she notified my sister, who came to my house to check on me."

bitL 8y ago

I think this is one of the cases where observing past and using it to predict future adds a bias that's no longer valid these days. Most people I know that are alone seem to be happy, the ones in relationships seem a mixed bag (some oscillating between high highs and low lows). Again, there is surely bias among people I meet (I can't make a stratified dataset with perfectly balanced classes), though it might be an indicator that socioeconomic and health conditions changed dramatically recently, invalidating long-term trends.

novia 8y ago

Living Alone Can Be Deadly For Men https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/new-study-claims-being-a-widow-is-good-for-your-health-a6997521.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/new-study-claims-being...

diogenescynic 8y ago

This reminds me of the 'man eating alone' scene from The Lobster.

NeoBasilisk 8y ago

what is correlation and causation?

m3kw9 8y ago

It’s called helping each other, you can extrapolate from there

wenc 8y ago

Quote: "Living alone was not associated with dying prematurely for those in the highest socioeconomic group — the 19 percent of study participants who had a university degree or worked in an executive position. But for the rest, the lower the socioeconomic status, the higher the risk for death. The authors emphasize that the remaining 81 percent of the population was not deprived or living in poverty, but consisted mainly of middle-class and skilled and unskilled workers." Socioeconomic class moderates mortality even among the loners? That's not unexpected. That said, I wonder if Danish society contributes particularly to loneliness. Most happiness studies (a trend in recent years) place Denmark at the top of happiness indices, but my understanding is happiness in this context often doesn't reflect an emotional well-being among individuals, only a quantitative aggregate one. Much has been said about the Danish concept of hygge (cozyness) but Scandinavian life in general is very privatized. I wonder if Danish social connectedness metrics are perhaps not so stellar.

eecc 8y ago
Watch https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Swedish_Theory_of_Love https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Swedish_Theory_of_Love Ok, it’s not precisely the same country but they’re very close
renholder 8y ago
>Most happiness studies (a trend in recent years) place Denmark at the top of happiness indices... I wonder if the "happiness" part is a misnomer and should actually be "contentment". Having experienced the Nordic/Scandinavian cutlures, myself (Sweden), they are pretty private but it's not impossible to have a social life - compared to, say, Ireland. I think the general demeanor of Scandinavians is pretty jovial but this also seems to be geographically-dependent (e.g.: city versus "country"). All of that being said, it's no surprise that the more money you have, the longer you live. I have a suspicion that it is related to the lesser amounts of stressors regarding to any fiscal matters. (Not saying that no one stresses about fiscal matters in that 19% but if it is due to fewer fiscal stressors, then it might be worth noting.) I wonder what the break-down of the cardiovascular health group is...
- 8y ago

RyanRies 8y ago

Having someone else around to call an ambulance for you when you're having a heart attack can have a large effect on the outcome. Having someone else around to nag you into going to the doctor when you otherwise might not go, etc.

newnewpdro 8y ago
Having someone else around who's a negative influence on dietary, entertainment, and general physical activity choices can have a large effect on the probability you'll need an ambulance.
- mreome 8y ago
  Having someone else around who's a positive influence on dietary, entertainment, and general physical activity choices can have a large effect on the probability you'll need an ambulance.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    Sure, and the other half of that pair is being harmed by the imbalance. Finding parity is quite difficult, particularly when you already take good care of yourself.
    - mreome 8y ago
      Social interaction and co-habitation is not a zero-sum game. I'm sure we're both working from our own personal experience here, but for me I've always found living with a room-mate or significant other to be a net positive for both parties. It's easier to cook healthy home meals for two then one, both in terms of purchasing/portioning and the ability to split up or alternate the work. It's easier to not skip workouts or social events when you hold each other accountable for them. The mental and emotional stimulation that comes from having someone else to talk to and do things with rather than passively consuming mass media alone. Sure, it's possible for someone with bad personal habits to be a negative influence on someone who struggles to maintain their own good habits, but two people with generally good habits can easily create positive feedback that allows them both to improve.

Qub3d 8y ago

I don't know... this feels like yet another article abusing statistics to generate a headline. There are just so many factors that could have a high comorbidity. The bigger issue I see is not living alone, but living without a social net -- I personally really enjoy living alone, but I also have regular social gatherings in my life.

gowld 8y ago
Anecdotal, but a friend of mine died because he had a seizure at home and no one stopped by to check in for over a day. If he had a housemate, he would have been far more likely to be found and rescued.
harryf 8y ago
As a single father of two teenagers who is - according to my kids - doing a good job, it’s almost like I’m societies worst nightmare. The idea that men could bring up children alone seems to terrify people, I assume because it puts a bunch of social norms in question like “every man must have a woman in his life or he’s going to self-destruct”.
- munk-a 8y ago
  I don't think that goes against the premise of the article though, having two teenagers (or any child over... 7ish?) negates a lot of the risk of having a sudden heart attack and being unable to get yourself timely care or finding yourself socially isolated. Your relationship with your teenagers isn't going to fill the same space as an S.O. or even a close friend, but having social interaction is important for other reasons, and your interactions with them will fulfill that need.
otakucode 8y ago
A few years ago there was an extremely broad study of all males living within a town, totalling 900 men in all. They monitored orgasm frequency over decades. As a result they were able to show that those who were below average in their orgasm frequency had a 50% higher chance of dying from any cause. That was alongside all sorts of findings about the general health dangers of abstinence. I imagine there is likely a pretty strong correlation between those who live alone and those who are starved for orgasm.

ataturk 8y ago

More NYT propaganda. Ignore. Like cable tv--just ignore it.

newnewpdro 8y ago

I've found it very difficult to find people to cohabitate with who aren't bringing down the living standards important to me. From long-term girlfriends to random folks I shared rent with when I was in the SF Bay area, it has always been a regression from what I have living alone.

satokema_work 8y ago
Congratulations. If you have the slack to maximize these things, you're probably in the top tier of statistics of this study that get X'd out to make their point. This leads me to this: it's interesting to think about which way the correlation goes - are these early deaths caused by living alone, or is it a symptom of other things wrong in their life that lead to a lack of girlfriends and random people and family in their life?
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  No doubt there's going to be some amount of men living exceptionally unhealthy lifestyles to the point of alienation.
xiphias2 8y ago
What are these living standards? Bay area is one of the worst places to find a girlfriend though, so if this is important for you, you need to move to a place with different supply/demand balance.
- wffurr 8y ago
  I don't know about the GP, but it's shocking how poorly many people pick up their things after themselves, leave messes in common areas, etc. I don't miss having roommates at all.
  - xiphias2 8y ago
    I see, yes, that's something important to filter for. Also having a cleaning lady is critical when you're working at an office job. Anyways I have a girlfriend who is much more organized than me, and she happily does things after me as well (in return I bring her to restaurants all the time, and paying for everything in our lives, as I have much higher income). If you find a great partner, life gets easier.

8bitsrule 8y ago

"“It’s paradoxical that the more we live in concentrated populations in big cities, the more people are living alone ... Social isolation is a global problem" Not paradoxical at all, considering the rash of entire old neighborhoods being torn down, to be replaced with exercise shoppes and bubble-tea shoppes and rectilinearly-architected enclaves of mere empty-headed dormitude. Faux-wood-trimmed concrete festooned with dark-blue surveillance knobs and plastic trees are fairly inadequate stand-ins for soul. So ... how do we like this music, hmmm?

kokokokoko 8y ago

> “It’s paradoxical that the more we live in concentrated populations in big cities, the more people are living alone” said the lead author, Dr. Magnus T. Jensen How is that in any way paradoxical? High density living causes people to subconsciously value individual connections less as they are surrounded by people in their day to day lives. This causes them to seek out alone time because their bodies are fatigued from the constant interaction. And causes them to have less social energy to devote to the people close to them. High density living performs the same trick on the brain that social media does. It fools a persons mind into thinking they are not alone, but in reality they are actually spending all of that time without individual close human connection. In reality they are spending all of their time alone. Along with that comes all physiological aspects of that constant alone time. Things like depression and general lack of emotional depth that we know has a significant effect on life expectancy.

yesenadam 8y ago
>High density living causes people to subconsciously value individual connections less That doesn't sound right to me - what makes you say that?
tomatotomato37 8y ago
I think it's less that and more so that those who buy large houses in the low-density outskirts simply have extra rooms for elder parents/divorcing relatives/recently graduated children/homeless friends/etc.

dana321 8y ago

Remember the magical formula: Correlation != Causation

bcit-cst 8y ago
Good point. But you know what proves causation ? Nothing. https://www.iep.utm.edu/hume-cau/#H6 https://www.iep.utm.edu/hume-cau/#H6
- dana321 8y ago
  Cause and effect are simple to discern with one variable (like pushing a ball), with multiple variables everything becomes increasingly complicated. Kind of why drugs don't work in the same way with everyone. Too many subtle differences (blood type, chromosomes, dna, age, hormone levels, deficiencies etc.)

iheartpotatoes 8y ago

63 to 95 years old? Hell, the first month I moved cross-country (at 22) I got really, really sick and couldn't get out of bed to buy groceries. After the third day I considered asking my estranged dad (who I was getting away from) to fly cross the country, or asking my landlord for help, or calling the hospital or 911. I literally had NO idea what to do. I wasn't dying I just couldn't stand up without barfing or getting dizzy. It was incredibly scary for a young kid trying to find a job and start a new life. I immediately saw the value in the door-to-door checkup services for the elderly.

jayeshsalvi 8y ago

The news item is based on single study performed in single country of small size with 3346 men as sample set. Hardly representative.

somberi 8y ago

Personal story: When I first moved to the USA from India, 20 years ago, I sought the help of a realtor to find a house in New England Area. He figured I was earning more than his clientele base and started showing me houses which were secluded and touted it as a huge plus. My reaction then (now I am sympathetic to isolation as a luxury and privilege) was that he was showing me such dives because I was a minority. In India, you were never far away from people and isolation was a novelty that you dabbled with in your vacation time (mountain resorts and such). As life would have it, I ended up in Manhattan later in life.

charliebrownau 8y ago

Maybe if your old like 60-100 or disabled But if your 18-58 Living by yourself in a 1 bedroom place is better then sharing or married