4 ms·

Alcohol also has the self-limiting property of consumption being marginally reversible. I can throw up a stomach full of vodka, but I can't throw up a vein ful

Alcohol also has the self-limiting property of consumption being marginally reversible. I can throw up a stomach full of vodka, but I can't throw up a vein full of heroin. Certainly alcohol poisoning deaths still occur, but far fewer of them occur than if throwing up weren't possible. Even so, I think more regulation, not less, of the alcohol industry is a good idea. Hitting the alcohol industry with advertising bans as harsh as the tobacco industry has would probably do a lot of good. Regulations requiring plain packaging might also do some good.

moate 8y ago
Alcohol is also a true physical addiction. You might want to die from heroin withdrawal, but it won't kill you if you quit cold turkey. The same cannot be said of high level alcoholism.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  Yes, that's right. DT can kill, a property alcohol addiction shares only with benzos to my knowledge. There is something to be said however about the relative addictiveness of alcohol and opiods. Most consumers of alcohol don't experience any negative symptoms at all when they go weeks without drinking, because most people who drink alcohol do it with insufficient intensity and frequency to develop an addiction. Most people never experience the side effects of cannabis withdrawal for the same reason (which are physiologically terrifying but not physically dangerous.) I know some people claim to be casual consumers of heroin. But I also know from personal experience that opiod addicts are liars. I've known one person killed by alcohol (a drunk driver, not DT) but three who were proscribed pain killers (two for workplace injuries, the other because his morbid obesity was causing back pain...) Before they wound up dead, each of these people turned into lying manipulators seeking more and more drug as their tolerance grew. The medical industry needs a lot more regulation. A fat person never should have been prescribed opium derivatives to treat pain caused by the strain his obesity was putting on his skeleton. That man got himself into medical trouble in the first place by having very poor self control, and instead of treating that psychological deficiency or treating his weight gain, the doctor gives him powerful addictive pain killers to mask the pain? That doctor belongs in prison. I know three people who took doctor prescribed doses for no more than a few weeks and got hooked and eventually killed. The alcohol industry is bad, but it's not that bad. The pharma/medical industry is getting away with murder and few are critical of it. EDIT: > "The alcohol industry is bad, but it's not that bad." I regret that phrasing. I believe on an individual level that opiods are more addictive than alcohol, but the alcohol and tobacco industries are scum on par with the painkiller industry and I would love to see them punished with very harsh regulation. Banning alcohol from television/radio/billboards would be a great start. I believe some countries also restrict tobacco to plain packaging, white cartons with black lettering. I'd like to see that brought to America and applied to the alcohol industry as well. The corporate lobbying against such regulation would be intense, but I think it would be worth the fight.
  - moate 8y ago
    >>The pharma/medical industry is getting away with murder and few are critical of it. I think many people are critical of it. The president is even putting out initiatives to combat it. I agree that it should have happened sooner, and the response should probably be more severe, but it does seem like the culture of "you broke your toe, he's some oxy" is starting to fade. As for the alcohol industry being "not that bad"...eh, maybe? I think there's a lot less stigma around alcohol abuse because of how much normal, healthy consumption is a part of many cultures. There's a lot of problems with the alcohol industry and it's toll on society, and I would say it seems that US culture's lax attitude towards that is more troubling. I don't understand why alcohol and prescription drugs can be advertised on TV while cigarettes are banned. I'm pretty strongly in the "do whatever you want, but we don't need to advertise vice" category. Advertising the products equates to direct cultural approval of these things which helps encourage abuse. I'm not saying take away the drugs and booze and smokes, just don't let them put ads everywhere if you feel they're a societal problem.
empath75 8y ago
Alcohol slowly destroys your liver even without poisoning.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  Harsher regulation of alcohol advertising would address this problem as well. Alcohol advertisements normalize the over-consumption of alcohol and the habitual consumption of alcohol, both of which are hazardous. The reason I mentioned alcohol poisoning and not long term organ damage is because I consider that to be a less severe issue even if the bodycount is higher. Elderly people living to be slightly less elderly than they otherwise would concerns me a lot less than people dying young. A teenager dying from alcohol poisoning (or a DUI) is a greater tragedy than a grandpa dying at 70 from pickling his liver (rather living a few more years to be killed by all the fried food he eats for breakfast every morning.)
  - moate 8y ago
    Counterpoint: the long term effects of alcohol lead to a decreased quality of life. Sad teen DUI is absolutely sad, but 15 years of bleeding ulcers and the pain caused by liver/kidney problems due to alcoholism isn't exactly sunshine and smiles. That's not even getting into the links between dementia and alcohol abuse, because I personally find nothing more terrifying than being a shell of my former self as my mind fades out.
    - darkpuma 8y ago
      As far as I'm concerned, a young person dying peacefully in their sleep is more tragic than an elderly person dying slowly and painfully. The math on this one seems pretty straight forward to me, but I appreciate that some people may find attitude cold or cynical. Most people probably wouldn't be willing to throw that proverbial trolley switch, but I would without hesitation.
      - moate 8y ago
        Without going too far down the moral philosophy hole, I think we can both agree that there's pros and cons to either side of this one, and just part on good terms. This is classic "maximizing joy" vs "minimizing suffering" axis stuff.

moate 8y ago

Alcohol is also a true physical addiction. You might want to die from heroin withdrawal, but it won't kill you if you quit cold turkey. The same cannot be said of high level alcoholism.

darkpuma 8y ago
Yes, that's right. DT can kill, a property alcohol addiction shares only with benzos to my knowledge. There is something to be said however about the relative addictiveness of alcohol and opiods. Most consumers of alcohol don't experience any negative symptoms at all when they go weeks without drinking, because most people who drink alcohol do it with insufficient intensity and frequency to develop an addiction. Most people never experience the side effects of cannabis withdrawal for the same reason (which are physiologically terrifying but not physically dangerous.) I know some people claim to be casual consumers of heroin. But I also know from personal experience that opiod addicts are liars. I've known one person killed by alcohol (a drunk driver, not DT) but three who were proscribed pain killers (two for workplace injuries, the other because his morbid obesity was causing back pain...) Before they wound up dead, each of these people turned into lying manipulators seeking more and more drug as their tolerance grew. The medical industry needs a lot more regulation. A fat person never should have been prescribed opium derivatives to treat pain caused by the strain his obesity was putting on his skeleton. That man got himself into medical trouble in the first place by having very poor self control, and instead of treating that psychological deficiency or treating his weight gain, the doctor gives him powerful addictive pain killers to mask the pain? That doctor belongs in prison. I know three people who took doctor prescribed doses for no more than a few weeks and got hooked and eventually killed. The alcohol industry is bad, but it's not that bad. The pharma/medical industry is getting away with murder and few are critical of it. EDIT: > "The alcohol industry is bad, but it's not that bad." I regret that phrasing. I believe on an individual level that opiods are more addictive than alcohol, but the alcohol and tobacco industries are scum on par with the painkiller industry and I would love to see them punished with very harsh regulation. Banning alcohol from television/radio/billboards would be a great start. I believe some countries also restrict tobacco to plain packaging, white cartons with black lettering. I'd like to see that brought to America and applied to the alcohol industry as well. The corporate lobbying against such regulation would be intense, but I think it would be worth the fight.
- moate 8y ago
  >>The pharma/medical industry is getting away with murder and few are critical of it. I think many people are critical of it. The president is even putting out initiatives to combat it. I agree that it should have happened sooner, and the response should probably be more severe, but it does seem like the culture of "you broke your toe, he's some oxy" is starting to fade. As for the alcohol industry being "not that bad"...eh, maybe? I think there's a lot less stigma around alcohol abuse because of how much normal, healthy consumption is a part of many cultures. There's a lot of problems with the alcohol industry and it's toll on society, and I would say it seems that US culture's lax attitude towards that is more troubling. I don't understand why alcohol and prescription drugs can be advertised on TV while cigarettes are banned. I'm pretty strongly in the "do whatever you want, but we don't need to advertise vice" category. Advertising the products equates to direct cultural approval of these things which helps encourage abuse. I'm not saying take away the drugs and booze and smokes, just don't let them put ads everywhere if you feel they're a societal problem.

empath75 8y ago

Alcohol slowly destroys your liver even without poisoning.

darkpuma 8y ago
Harsher regulation of alcohol advertising would address this problem as well. Alcohol advertisements normalize the over-consumption of alcohol and the habitual consumption of alcohol, both of which are hazardous. The reason I mentioned alcohol poisoning and not long term organ damage is because I consider that to be a less severe issue even if the bodycount is higher. Elderly people living to be slightly less elderly than they otherwise would concerns me a lot less than people dying young. A teenager dying from alcohol poisoning (or a DUI) is a greater tragedy than a grandpa dying at 70 from pickling his liver (rather living a few more years to be killed by all the fried food he eats for breakfast every morning.)
- moate 8y ago
  Counterpoint: the long term effects of alcohol lead to a decreased quality of life. Sad teen DUI is absolutely sad, but 15 years of bleeding ulcers and the pain caused by liver/kidney problems due to alcoholism isn't exactly sunshine and smiles. That's not even getting into the links between dementia and alcohol abuse, because I personally find nothing more terrifying than being a shell of my former self as my mind fades out.
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    As far as I'm concerned, a young person dying peacefully in their sleep is more tragic than an elderly person dying slowly and painfully. The math on this one seems pretty straight forward to me, but I appreciate that some people may find attitude cold or cynical. Most people probably wouldn't be willing to throw that proverbial trolley switch, but I would without hesitation.
    - moate 8y ago
      Without going too far down the moral philosophy hole, I think we can both agree that there's pros and cons to either side of this one, and just part on good terms. This is classic "maximizing joy" vs "minimizing suffering" axis stuff.