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That is a massive leap of faith to believe that a person that works for a large international non-profit is someone who automatically behaves justly and morally

That is a massive leap of faith to believe that a person that works for a large international non-profit is someone who automatically behaves justly and morally. It is often a prestigious and above average paying position. There are certainly people who go into non-profit work for all the right reasons. But there are plenty that do not.

duxup 8y ago
It does seem to be a common belief though. I recall someone hired at Baylor University as a part of dealing with sexual assault investigations (before the big scandal) believed it would be a good job because ... they thought there would fewer such problems at a Christian university. I was bit shocked that someone tasked with investigations like this would even think that (wondered about qualifications). In the end, people are people. No job or role really makes them any more or less anything. It's about who they are, and their choices, not the job, title, or etc.
drieddust 8y ago
> That is a massive leap of faith to believe that a person that works for a large international non-profit is someone who automatically behaves justly and morally. In some circles its trendy to work for non profits and sometimes even benefits are much better than working for a regular organization where $$ return of investments are monitored closely. It's basically do good porn for some.
- PaulHoule 8y ago
  see https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/1/30/18203911/davos-rutger-bregman-historian-taxes-philanthropy https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/1/30/18203911/davos-...
matt4077 8y ago
NGO jobs are not better paid than equivalent jobs in industry. I have plenty of friends in those jobs, and each one of them could easily triple their salary by, for example, going to McKinsey instead. To give more than anecdotes: it’s self-evident that more prestigious work can afford to pay less than competitors that are boring and get you spit at by your friends.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  Once you go up the chain they make very good money. Just look at the houses of non-profit execs in Northern VA. They are huge.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    It depends a lot on the NGO. Some cap executive compensation at $100K or so. But others don't.
  - sincerely 8y ago
    Non-profit execs make good money (by virtue of being execs), but certainly not more than they could be making in industry.
coderintherye 8y ago
>It is often a prestigious and above average paying position Incorrect. Furthermore, the salaries are often public, so this is provable. Look up our 990 if you don't believe me. You can also review via GuideStar[0] or Foundation Center[1]. I work with a lot of fellow non-profits, on average our positions pay about 80% of market. Perhaps you are only looking at CEO pay? On average, that is also below market, but there are some outliers which I'd have to guess you are basing your incorrect assertion on. [0] https://www.guidestar.org/Home.aspx https://www.guidestar.org/Home.aspx [1] https://foundationcenter.org/ https://foundationcenter.org/
- kokokokoko 8y ago
  By "above average" I meant it was above the median income as opposed to above average for the position. I should have made that language a bit clearer. From there I would say that the status and prestige of working at a large and powerful NGO can make up for the difference in pay one might make elsewhere. There are obviously many people who go into non-profit work for purely altruistic reasons. I only meant to state that there are plenty of people who do not. Therefore using the position as a signal of the quality of a person's character is not valid.
  - mLuby 8y ago
    Ehhh, the signal can be pretty valid even if it's not so in 100% of cases. And I imagine that it's less correct at the top: rank and file NGO employees are likely to have made significant sacrifices in terms of pay or lifestyle to support their org's mission, but I don't know for certain that applies to the C-suite equivalent at the top.
  - matt4077 8y ago
    Can’t you just admit you were wrong, instead of moving the goalpost to some (also wrong) median vs mode argument, and then repeating your other impossible-to-disprove opinion on NGO worker’s character flaws?
    - kokokokoko 8y ago
wazoox 8y ago
Absolutely anecdata: all of the NGO workers I've met were "spoiled rich youngsters" wanting to get meaning in their lives. Then most NGOs seem do more harm than good IMO, particularly the bigger the badder (local support associations and organisations are almost always fine OTOH).
- byron_fast 8y ago
  This also describes most "terrorist leaders". Being born rich distorts your worldview.
- mirimir 8y ago
  When I interviewed for my first NGO job, I was warned that most staff had trust fund income. I didn't. And eventually got tired of being poor.
HappyDreamer 8y ago
> plenty that do not [join for the right reasons] Some people (men) become aid workers so the can use their power, as aid workers, to rape refugee women and children. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43206297 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43206297 "Syria conflict: Women 'sexually exploited in return for aid'" -- the United Nations and other charities, hire them. Why don't they just hire women instead, to distribute the food, please.

duxup 8y ago

It does seem to be a common belief though. I recall someone hired at Baylor University as a part of dealing with sexual assault investigations (before the big scandal) believed it would be a good job because ... they thought there would fewer such problems at a Christian university. I was bit shocked that someone tasked with investigations like this would even think that (wondered about qualifications). In the end, people are people. No job or role really makes them any more or less anything. It's about who they are, and their choices, not the job, title, or etc.

drieddust 8y ago

> That is a massive leap of faith to believe that a person that works for a large international non-profit is someone who automatically behaves justly and morally. In some circles its trendy to work for non profits and sometimes even benefits are much better than working for a regular organization where $$ return of investments are monitored closely. It's basically do good porn for some.

PaulHoule 8y ago
see https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/1/30/18203911/davos-rutger-bregman-historian-taxes-philanthropy https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/1/30/18203911/davos-...

matt4077 8y ago

NGO jobs are not better paid than equivalent jobs in industry. I have plenty of friends in those jobs, and each one of them could easily triple their salary by, for example, going to McKinsey instead. To give more than anecdotes: it’s self-evident that more prestigious work can afford to pay less than competitors that are boring and get you spit at by your friends.

maxxxxx 8y ago
Once you go up the chain they make very good money. Just look at the houses of non-profit execs in Northern VA. They are huge.
- mirimir 8y ago
  It depends a lot on the NGO. Some cap executive compensation at $100K or so. But others don't.
- sincerely 8y ago
  Non-profit execs make good money (by virtue of being execs), but certainly not more than they could be making in industry.

coderintherye 8y ago

>It is often a prestigious and above average paying position Incorrect. Furthermore, the salaries are often public, so this is provable. Look up our 990 if you don't believe me. You can also review via GuideStar[0] or Foundation Center[1]. I work with a lot of fellow non-profits, on average our positions pay about 80% of market. Perhaps you are only looking at CEO pay? On average, that is also below market, but there are some outliers which I'd have to guess you are basing your incorrect assertion on. [0] https://www.guidestar.org/Home.aspx https://www.guidestar.org/Home.aspx [1] https://foundationcenter.org/ https://foundationcenter.org/

kokokokoko 8y ago
By "above average" I meant it was above the median income as opposed to above average for the position. I should have made that language a bit clearer. From there I would say that the status and prestige of working at a large and powerful NGO can make up for the difference in pay one might make elsewhere. There are obviously many people who go into non-profit work for purely altruistic reasons. I only meant to state that there are plenty of people who do not. Therefore using the position as a signal of the quality of a person's character is not valid.
- mLuby 8y ago
  Ehhh, the signal can be pretty valid even if it's not so in 100% of cases. And I imagine that it's less correct at the top: rank and file NGO employees are likely to have made significant sacrifices in terms of pay or lifestyle to support their org's mission, but I don't know for certain that applies to the C-suite equivalent at the top.
- matt4077 8y ago
  Can’t you just admit you were wrong, instead of moving the goalpost to some (also wrong) median vs mode argument, and then repeating your other impossible-to-disprove opinion on NGO worker’s character flaws?
  - kokokokoko 8y ago

wazoox 8y ago

Absolutely anecdata: all of the NGO workers I've met were "spoiled rich youngsters" wanting to get meaning in their lives. Then most NGOs seem do more harm than good IMO, particularly the bigger the badder (local support associations and organisations are almost always fine OTOH).

byron_fast 8y ago
This also describes most "terrorist leaders". Being born rich distorts your worldview.
mirimir 8y ago
When I interviewed for my first NGO job, I was warned that most staff had trust fund income. I didn't. And eventually got tired of being poor.

HappyDreamer 8y ago

> plenty that do not [join for the right reasons] Some people (men) become aid workers so the can use their power, as aid workers, to rape refugee women and children. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43206297 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43206297 "Syria conflict: Women 'sexually exploited in return for aid'" -- the United Nations and other charities, hire them. Why don't they just hire women instead, to distribute the food, please.