4 ms·

Meanwhile, in the US and Canada, you are forced to sign clauses that gives your employer full ownership of anything you invent ever while employed and you have

Meanwhile, in the US and Canada, you are forced to sign clauses that gives your employer full ownership of anything you invent ever while employed and you have to ask your ~parents~ employer if you could please do something else on the side. Good for Sweden, these feodal rules are dragging everyone down.

Kiro 8y ago
> and you have to ask your ~~parents~~ employer if you could please do something else on the side What does this mean?
- adetrest 8y ago
  It's meant to be struck out but HN doesn't do strikeout text. I meant that just as when you were in school and needed a hall pass or note from your parents to be absent, once you're an adult you need a formal authorization from your employer to work on anything else than your job during your employment even if it's on your own time.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
    Surely this is down to the individual employer? Some companies try to add clauses like this to contracts here in the UK but thankfully they're generally not enforceable. Speaking as an employer, what my employees get up to in their own time is their business as long as they get their work done when they're supposed to.
    - maxsilver 8y ago
      > Surely this is down to the individual employer? In theory, yes, In practice, nearly every single US employer has this somewhere in their contract automatically by default -- the only way a company doesn't, is if someone explicitly got it removed. Also, in much of the US, the clause is enforceable, so companies have basically no incentive to remove it.
    - adetrest 8y ago
      Count your blessings, every US and Canadian work contract (hell, even some contracting/consulting agreements) I have ever seen or signed had a no-compete and a clause prohibiting you from doing anything else than working for your employer.
2019ideas 8y ago
>you are forced to sign clauses that gives your employer full ownership of anything you invent ever while employed You know, you don't have to sign those. I always cross out those and tell them to send it back when its fixed. Only my first job I was afraid to do this.
- robin_reala 8y ago
  My (Swedish) company tried this. I got it crossed out after I pointed out that that meant they also had legal responsibility for anything I produce out of work hours.
maxxxxx 8y ago
When I first learned about this type of contract I couldn’t even believe the concept. How can anybody think it’s ok that a company can claim and kind of ownership over things an employee does in his free time? I have signed up for 40 hours a week and not for being fully owned by the company. What happens if you work another job and invent things there? Do the companies own each other’s stuff?
- wjjdjw 8y ago
  So would you assume you can work 40 hr and trade secrets from your employer as a side hustle, just because it's not happening within the work time?
  - deogeo 8y ago
    Are those contract clauses limited to trade secrets?
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      They often are not limited. In essence the company claims it owns all your creative output while you are employed.
  - cr1895 8y ago
    You're presumably already bound to confidentiality.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    This is not about trade secrets.
  - adetrest 8y ago
    You can do work on the side without disclosing your employers trade secrets, I would hope. There is nothing mysterious about yet another CRUD web application. Besides, confidentiality is covered separately and an NDA can stand on its own. I suspect employers love restricting your right to have a side hustle so that they absolutely totally own you. If you have no other means of income besides your job they can lean on you pretty hard and there isn't much you can do about it if you like having a roof over your head.
JTbane 8y ago
Not all companies do this- mine owns anything that is made during work time or using work resources. However I did sign a forced arbitration clause which is equally BS.
kansface 8y ago
Not in California, which at least partially explains why SV is not somewhere else.
CorvusCrypto 8y ago
Actually in Sweden you have this also. Most people just have it removed from the contract. In the US it is the same. or you get a version that instead just says they own anything done during company time or using employer resources.

Kiro 8y ago

> and you have to ask your ~~parents~~ employer if you could please do something else on the side What does this mean?

adetrest 8y ago
It's meant to be struck out but HN doesn't do strikeout text. I meant that just as when you were in school and needed a hall pass or note from your parents to be absent, once you're an adult you need a formal authorization from your employer to work on anything else than your job during your employment even if it's on your own time.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  Surely this is down to the individual employer? Some companies try to add clauses like this to contracts here in the UK but thankfully they're generally not enforceable. Speaking as an employer, what my employees get up to in their own time is their business as long as they get their work done when they're supposed to.
  - maxsilver 8y ago
    > Surely this is down to the individual employer? In theory, yes, In practice, nearly every single US employer has this somewhere in their contract automatically by default -- the only way a company doesn't, is if someone explicitly got it removed. Also, in much of the US, the clause is enforceable, so companies have basically no incentive to remove it.
  - adetrest 8y ago
    Count your blessings, every US and Canadian work contract (hell, even some contracting/consulting agreements) I have ever seen or signed had a no-compete and a clause prohibiting you from doing anything else than working for your employer.

2019ideas 8y ago

>you are forced to sign clauses that gives your employer full ownership of anything you invent ever while employed You know, you don't have to sign those. I always cross out those and tell them to send it back when its fixed. Only my first job I was afraid to do this.

robin_reala 8y ago
My (Swedish) company tried this. I got it crossed out after I pointed out that that meant they also had legal responsibility for anything I produce out of work hours.

maxxxxx 8y ago

When I first learned about this type of contract I couldn’t even believe the concept. How can anybody think it’s ok that a company can claim and kind of ownership over things an employee does in his free time? I have signed up for 40 hours a week and not for being fully owned by the company. What happens if you work another job and invent things there? Do the companies own each other’s stuff?

wjjdjw 8y ago
So would you assume you can work 40 hr and trade secrets from your employer as a side hustle, just because it's not happening within the work time?
- deogeo 8y ago
  Are those contract clauses limited to trade secrets?
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    They often are not limited. In essence the company claims it owns all your creative output while you are employed.
- cr1895 8y ago
  You're presumably already bound to confidentiality.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  This is not about trade secrets.
- adetrest 8y ago
  You can do work on the side without disclosing your employers trade secrets, I would hope. There is nothing mysterious about yet another CRUD web application. Besides, confidentiality is covered separately and an NDA can stand on its own. I suspect employers love restricting your right to have a side hustle so that they absolutely totally own you. If you have no other means of income besides your job they can lean on you pretty hard and there isn't much you can do about it if you like having a roof over your head.

JTbane 8y ago

Not all companies do this- mine owns anything that is made during work time or using work resources. However I did sign a forced arbitration clause which is equally BS.

kansface 8y ago

Not in California, which at least partially explains why SV is not somewhere else.

CorvusCrypto 8y ago

Actually in Sweden you have this also. Most people just have it removed from the contract. In the US it is the same. or you get a version that instead just says they own anything done during company time or using employer resources.