4 ms·

> including potentially abroad On my reading of the A&A bill there was no extra-territoriality clauses, so I think it only applies within Australia. However,

> including potentially abroad On my reading of the A&A bill there was no extra-territoriality clauses, so I think it only applies within Australia. However, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

shakna 8y ago
It also appears to apply to Australian citizens living abroad, potentially making dual-citizens into covert actors.
- jacques_chester 8y ago
  Do you know which clause gives it extra-territoriality? I didn't see one in my pass over it.
  - shakna 8y ago
    The devil is in the details. 317c, defining "communications provider". > 5. the person provides a service that facilitates, or is ancillary or incidental to, the provision of an electronic service that has one or more end‑users in Australia > 6. the person develops, supplies or updates software used, for use, or likely to be used, in connection with: > (a) a listed carriage service; or > (b) an electronic service that has one or more end‑users in Australia > 8. the person manufactures or supplies components for use, or likely to be used, in the manufacture of a facility for use, or likely to be used, in Australia There's several more. A communications provider, under the given definitions is not bound to be on Australian soil, but rather interacting with Australia as a nation. Applying this law to those of different nationality is difficult, and unlikely to succeed, however those of dual-citizenship can be held accountable. This opinion I have, that the law does apply to those internationally, is one I have seen supported by several law firms I have occasional contact with. Probably aided by: > 317F. This Part extends to every external Territory. > 317ZC.4 Part 4 of the Regulatory Powers (Standard Provisions) Act 2014, as it applies in relation to section 317ZB of this Act, extends to: > (a) every external Territory; and > (b) acts, omissions, matters and things outside Australia. > 317ZD (Enforceable Undertakings). > Part 6 of the Regulatory Powers (Standard Provisions) Act 2014, as it applies in relation to section 317ZB of this Act, extends to: > (a) every external Territory; and > (b) acts, omissions, matters and things outside Australia. There's a few more - but as the Act is stating it is enforceable to both external Territories and acts, omissions, matters and things outside Australia, I do think the most likely reading is that 'acts' can be enforced upon Australians living outside the borders.
    - jacques_chester 8y ago
      "External Territories" here means Christmas Island, the Australian Antarctic Territory etc etc. When I say "extra-territoriality" I mean the application of law outside of Australia's borders. The "acts, ommissions, matters and things" appears to give extra-territoriality to subject matter but not to legal personalities (ie companies and people). The "communications provider" part is very broad, and while in Australia I am definitely covered by it. But the courts will not generally interpret legislation as having extra-territorial effect unless it explicitly says so. Otherwise every Act would need a stuff like "ps. the Fisheries Amendments (Rex Hunt Is A Wanker) Act is non-territorial". My question is not about whether a legal personality (ie, a company) is affected if they have a physical-legal presence in Australia, because of course they are affected. My question is whether someone like me, who is outside Australia's boundaries, can be served a notice while I am out of the country. On my reading it's still a "no". But I am still not a lawyer.

shakna 8y ago

It also appears to apply to Australian citizens living abroad, potentially making dual-citizens into covert actors.

jacques_chester 8y ago
Do you know which clause gives it extra-territoriality? I didn't see one in my pass over it.
- shakna 8y ago
  The devil is in the details. 317c, defining "communications provider". > 5. the person provides a service that facilitates, or is ancillary or incidental to, the provision of an electronic service that has one or more end‑users in Australia > 6. the person develops, supplies or updates software used, for use, or likely to be used, in connection with: > (a) a listed carriage service; or > (b) an electronic service that has one or more end‑users in Australia > 8. the person manufactures or supplies components for use, or likely to be used, in the manufacture of a facility for use, or likely to be used, in Australia There's several more. A communications provider, under the given definitions is not bound to be on Australian soil, but rather interacting with Australia as a nation. Applying this law to those of different nationality is difficult, and unlikely to succeed, however those of dual-citizenship can be held accountable. This opinion I have, that the law does apply to those internationally, is one I have seen supported by several law firms I have occasional contact with. Probably aided by: > 317F. This Part extends to every external Territory. > 317ZC.4 Part 4 of the Regulatory Powers (Standard Provisions) Act 2014, as it applies in relation to section 317ZB of this Act, extends to: > (a) every external Territory; and > (b) acts, omissions, matters and things outside Australia. > 317ZD (Enforceable Undertakings). > Part 6 of the Regulatory Powers (Standard Provisions) Act 2014, as it applies in relation to section 317ZB of this Act, extends to: > (a) every external Territory; and > (b) acts, omissions, matters and things outside Australia. There's a few more - but as the Act is stating it is enforceable to both external Territories and acts, omissions, matters and things outside Australia, I do think the most likely reading is that 'acts' can be enforced upon Australians living outside the borders.
  - jacques_chester 8y ago
    "External Territories" here means Christmas Island, the Australian Antarctic Territory etc etc. When I say "extra-territoriality" I mean the application of law outside of Australia's borders. The "acts, ommissions, matters and things" appears to give extra-territoriality to subject matter but not to legal personalities (ie companies and people). The "communications provider" part is very broad, and while in Australia I am definitely covered by it. But the courts will not generally interpret legislation as having extra-territorial effect unless it explicitly says so. Otherwise every Act would need a stuff like "ps. the Fisheries Amendments (Rex Hunt Is A Wanker) Act is non-territorial". My question is not about whether a legal personality (ie, a company) is affected if they have a physical-legal presence in Australia, because of course they are affected. My question is whether someone like me, who is outside Australia's boundaries, can be served a notice while I am out of the country. On my reading it's still a "no". But I am still not a lawyer.