3 ms·

To play devil's advocate, this is actually standard practice with tipped employees like waiters and waitresses. They are often paid a lower base wage because it

To play devil's advocate, this is actually standard practice with tipped employees like waiters and waitresses. They are often paid a lower base wage because it is expected they make some of it back on tips. Tips have always been essentially a variable part of the worker's salary controlled by the customer. It's why in America it's considered basically unacceptable to not tip even though it's "optional."

general8bitso 8y ago
Waiters and waitresses don’t use their own vehicle amd gas to bring me my food, though.
- chrischen 8y ago
  That's not really part of this problem though, as even if they were compensated for gas and insurance for the car, this still applies. Fundamentally, people are outraged because essentially tipping is subsidizing the wages the employer should be paying, and that's the case even with a restaurant. The issue is the tipping system. It's counterintuitive but your "generosity" with a tip, once it becomes standard cultural practice, ends up in one way or another getting nullified by the employer. And there's no real way to prevent this as the OP said, money is fungible, so if the employee gets paid more in some way it all just becomes their total earnings in the end, which saves the employer from having to make up that difference because the market price for the employee's time and labor is fixed.
  - dasil003 8y ago
    In a restaurant it’s not per transaction so it’s not directly rendering your generosity ineffectual. It’s a matter of degree and convention but not insignificant.
  - clhodapp 8y ago
    There is absolutely way to prevent this. We could enact laws to clarify that tips are between the customer and the employee and have no effect on the company's legal obligation to pay minimum wage. That is how the law actually is written in a number of states.
    - chrischen 8y ago
      Or enact a law that bans tipping. There are plenty of societies that ban tipping, including places that are more advanced than the US like Japan. Not to mention tipping is another surface area for potential money laundering and tax evasion.
CptFribble 8y ago
It's not quite that - in places with a lower "tipped minimum wage," the employer only gets to pay the lower hourly rate if the employee doesn't earn the standard minimum wage from tips. The employee is supposed to report their tips, usually per pay period, and if it adds up to less than minimum wage, the employer is supposed to make up the difference. Doesn't work out like that in practice, though. My wife waited tables for years when she was young and most of those places just paid enough to show $0.00 on the paycheck after payroll/SS taxes and the like. It also works out to be essentially what Instacart and DD are doing, but with a federal/state mandated "floor" on how low they can pull the hourly from the tips.
- chrischen 8y ago
  Employer still benefits from this though, in both cases. So if the tips DO add up to more than minimum wage the employer is the one who is saving the money from the extra tips.

general8bitso 8y ago

Waiters and waitresses don’t use their own vehicle amd gas to bring me my food, though.

chrischen 8y ago
That's not really part of this problem though, as even if they were compensated for gas and insurance for the car, this still applies. Fundamentally, people are outraged because essentially tipping is subsidizing the wages the employer should be paying, and that's the case even with a restaurant. The issue is the tipping system. It's counterintuitive but your "generosity" with a tip, once it becomes standard cultural practice, ends up in one way or another getting nullified by the employer. And there's no real way to prevent this as the OP said, money is fungible, so if the employee gets paid more in some way it all just becomes their total earnings in the end, which saves the employer from having to make up that difference because the market price for the employee's time and labor is fixed.
- dasil003 8y ago
  In a restaurant it’s not per transaction so it’s not directly rendering your generosity ineffectual. It’s a matter of degree and convention but not insignificant.
- clhodapp 8y ago
  There is absolutely way to prevent this. We could enact laws to clarify that tips are between the customer and the employee and have no effect on the company's legal obligation to pay minimum wage. That is how the law actually is written in a number of states.
  - chrischen 8y ago
    Or enact a law that bans tipping. There are plenty of societies that ban tipping, including places that are more advanced than the US like Japan. Not to mention tipping is another surface area for potential money laundering and tax evasion.

CptFribble 8y ago

It's not quite that - in places with a lower "tipped minimum wage," the employer only gets to pay the lower hourly rate if the employee doesn't earn the standard minimum wage from tips. The employee is supposed to report their tips, usually per pay period, and if it adds up to less than minimum wage, the employer is supposed to make up the difference. Doesn't work out like that in practice, though. My wife waited tables for years when she was young and most of those places just paid enough to show $0.00 on the paycheck after payroll/SS taxes and the like. It also works out to be essentially what Instacart and DD are doing, but with a federal/state mandated "floor" on how low they can pull the hourly from the tips.

chrischen 8y ago
Employer still benefits from this though, in both cases. So if the tips DO add up to more than minimum wage the employer is the one who is saving the money from the extra tips.