4 ms·

edit: Meh, in retrospect this comment was lazy and I don't feel like having it around for the rest of eternity.

by _zskd 8y ago

andonisus 8y ago
Surely there must be some sort of test to measure applicants, though?
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  Higher socioeconomic classes inherently have benefits, like better informed parents, and friends who have better informed parents. This will show through any test, and it's just a fact of life since everyone isn't equal. I don't see changing a test to be a solution. If the problem is not having well equipped parents and network, then the solution has to attack that issue. Which of course is very difficult and spans over decades as it would take generations to change.
  - vokep 8y ago
    Thats true, but there's no good way to just 'fix' it all. However, don't make the test expensive. Basically, make it economically equal to as great a degree as possible. Some will still be disadvantaged of course, but I think at some point that's reality, the fact is everyone is not equal. If everyone is treated equal though, then at least those with value can rise themselves to the top regardless of other circumstance.
    - lotsofpulp 8y ago
      I agree with that, I think a British style system would be far more equitable than the College Board nonsense America has.
rijoja 8y ago
"Standardized tests helped talented immigrants and minorities breach the elite’s ivy-covered bunkers." It's a shame that you work for an education startup and you don't even bother reading the articles you are posting. The article clearly states, that the standardized tests made things more egalitarian. If you truly are interested in the truth and not merely trying to profit on persecuting people on ideological grounds, perhaps you might want to point to where the flaws in the tests lie, something the article fails to mention.
- haihaibye 8y ago
  They claim that minority students increased representation in gifted programs after increased testing and linked to a paper. They forgot to mention that the paper says IQ cutoffs were 130 for non-disadvantaged students vs 115 for poor/minority. The paper then goes on to say, with lower ovjective standards, the groups pass the subjective bar at equal rates. The subjective bar being applied by a system so motivated to achieve proportional representation they altered cutoffs.
germinalphrase 8y ago
I believe there’s a business opportunity here predicated on the idea that the SAT/ACT tests almost exclusively exist because teacher designed and administered assessments are not trustable. Create a system that supports teachers in creating, administrating and scoring trustable assessments. Have this system judge the reliability of assessment questions in a manner similar to the College Board’s internal auditing of test item quality. The outcome would be more reliable assessment results within our schools (which increases the baseline quality of that education) and allows for the benchmarking/sorting of students for higher education and employment. The results would not be reliable immediately, but over time such a system would simultaneously refocus the billions spent on standardized testing into more productive educational endeavors while also supporting educational improvement. As a high school level teacher, standardized testing data is useless for improving my instruction and improving student outcomes. We should close the gap between these redundant assessment regimes, reduce the negative impacts associated with how we administer standardized assessments, and save school districts money.

edit: Meh, in retrospect this comment was lazy and I don't feel like having it around for the rest of eternity.

by _zskd 8y ago

edit: Meh, in retrospect this comment was lazy and I don't feel like having it around for the rest of eternity.

andonisus 8y ago

Surely there must be some sort of test to measure applicants, though?

lotsofpulp 8y ago
Higher socioeconomic classes inherently have benefits, like better informed parents, and friends who have better informed parents. This will show through any test, and it's just a fact of life since everyone isn't equal. I don't see changing a test to be a solution. If the problem is not having well equipped parents and network, then the solution has to attack that issue. Which of course is very difficult and spans over decades as it would take generations to change.
- vokep 8y ago
  Thats true, but there's no good way to just 'fix' it all. However, don't make the test expensive. Basically, make it economically equal to as great a degree as possible. Some will still be disadvantaged of course, but I think at some point that's reality, the fact is everyone is not equal. If everyone is treated equal though, then at least those with value can rise themselves to the top regardless of other circumstance.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    I agree with that, I think a British style system would be far more equitable than the College Board nonsense America has.

rijoja 8y ago

"Standardized tests helped talented immigrants and minorities breach the elite’s ivy-covered bunkers." It's a shame that you work for an education startup and you don't even bother reading the articles you are posting. The article clearly states, that the standardized tests made things more egalitarian. If you truly are interested in the truth and not merely trying to profit on persecuting people on ideological grounds, perhaps you might want to point to where the flaws in the tests lie, something the article fails to mention.

haihaibye 8y ago
They claim that minority students increased representation in gifted programs after increased testing and linked to a paper. They forgot to mention that the paper says IQ cutoffs were 130 for non-disadvantaged students vs 115 for poor/minority. The paper then goes on to say, with lower ovjective standards, the groups pass the subjective bar at equal rates. The subjective bar being applied by a system so motivated to achieve proportional representation they altered cutoffs.

germinalphrase 8y ago

I believe there’s a business opportunity here predicated on the idea that the SAT/ACT tests almost exclusively exist because teacher designed and administered assessments are not trustable. Create a system that supports teachers in creating, administrating and scoring trustable assessments. Have this system judge the reliability of assessment questions in a manner similar to the College Board’s internal auditing of test item quality. The outcome would be more reliable assessment results within our schools (which increases the baseline quality of that education) and allows for the benchmarking/sorting of students for higher education and employment. The results would not be reliable immediately, but over time such a system would simultaneously refocus the billions spent on standardized testing into more productive educational endeavors while also supporting educational improvement. As a high school level teacher, standardized testing data is useless for improving my instruction and improving student outcomes. We should close the gap between these redundant assessment regimes, reduce the negative impacts associated with how we administer standardized assessments, and save school districts money.