4 ms·

Maybe business networking isn't overrated, but the way you form connections (shallow vs deep) that is the problem.

by tw1010 8y ago

ghaff 8y ago
Networks, personal/professional/everything in-between, are not overrated. Anecdote but every job since my first one out of school came directly through people I had worked with in some capacity or other. However, contrast with "Networking" with a capital-N in the giving out business cards like candy at some business networking cocktail party. It's probably a combination of how deep the connection is as you say and just the general attitude that tends to pervade those sorts of events.
- Consultant32452 8y ago
  I have the opposite anecdote. I've never known anyone at any job I've ever gotten. FWIW, I get offers at about 80% of places that interview me. Admittedly, my understanding from some economics literature I've read is that your case is far more normal.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    I'm sure it depends. If you have some broadly in-demand skill and it's obvious from your resume that you're competent at it (and, in fact, are), you may flow through the various filters pretty easily. You check the various boxes at a lot of companies and, in some ways, have a much bigger hunting ground. OTOH, post long-term job #1 I was relatively senior and didn't have a background that was particularly appealing to a lot of the cool young companies of the era. But I did have former co-workers at one place that gave me a quick offer. And, since then, it's been pretty specialized roles that came pretty much 100% through ongoing professional relationships.
scrooched_moose 8y ago
I think that's really the issue. I've received some big breaks by knowing the correct people, but not a single one of them has been a 2-minute connection from some BS networking event. It's always been a preexisting, unrelated relationship which eventually becomes career relevant. I'm shocked by the number of seniors/recent grads who contact me out of the blue (god knows where they got my info) asking for recommendations or a break. No, I'm not going to stick my neck out by recommending someone I've never met for an open position.
- ghaff 8y ago
  This. Hi! I'm one of the 100,000 people that happened to graduate from the same school that you did. Can you put in a referral for me? Mind you. I am often happy to respond to a few questions in an email (or even a quick call) from pretty much anyone. Though a good percentage of the time, when I do that I don't get so much as a Gmail form "Thanks."
- joshklein 8y ago
  On the other hand, when a recent grad or otherwise distant connection-of-a-connection reaches out to ask me to coffee or a 15-minute call to “pick my brain” about my career experiences (a so-called “informational interview”), I almost never turn them down.
  - pthomas551 8y ago
    This is the way to do it. Then make the ask for a referral, interview, etc. at the end. It usually works, I've gotten a good job doing this.
- pthomas551 8y ago
  I'm not inherently opposed to referring people I don't know, as long as we have some sort of connection. The referral bonus at my company is pretty nice, after all. So what I do is ask for a CV and cover letter; if they're good I can upload all the documents straight into the HR system and save the candidate the trouble. In my experience, only a small minority of the cold outreach people actually respond to my request, and the responses I do get are usually low quality and don't merit a referral.
jpm_sd 8y ago
Every job I've had since my first job has been through a personal referral, from people I have worked closely with in the past. Not from people I met at "networking" events.
petra 8y ago
Maybe it's more about mutual favors, and not necessary shallow vs deep ? If you helped some remote contact of yours somehow(knowledge, connections, maybe even just lending a hand when he needed), I'm sure he would be much more likely to return the favor.
nate 8y ago
Well put. That's what's rubbed me the wrong way with all these networking events. A drink + a little small talk doesn't really deepen anything for me. One thing I've recently started that I've thoroughly been enjoying is throwing a "let's play a game over lunch" networking event. It does a few things differently that I've enjoyed. 1) It's over lunch. it doesn't require an obligation that takes me away from my loved ones in the evening. I'm going to eat lunch anyways, might as well do it with a group of friends or strangers. 2) We don't have to small talk. There's a game involved. There's rules to that help us to talk to each other. It's so much easier to do so then. 3) Playing a game deepens these relationships. I can't even explain it. But it's this artificial conflict that's been creating these stronger bonds with these folks I'm playing a game with. I can't wait to play the next game with them and have our chats afterwards. 4) The game I picked was important. I picked "The Resistance". It's similar to Mafia/Werewolf where you're basically all trying to figure out who's lying to you. So the game isn't what most folks think about when they think a game with cards or board games. It's really just talking and learning how people express themselves. So it really goes deep in examining people and having them examine you. It's a weird feeling to go through that type of process with acquaintances. But every time I've played a "lying game" like Mafia/Resistance with a group of acquaintances or new folks, I'm so much more comfortable talking to them about so many other things. It's been fun. I've been told by some folks it's in their top meetups they've ever done, and it takes ridiculously low effort. Just email some people to show up and play a game. Don't need to shell out for food/drinks/speakers/other garbage. (I'm in Chicago doing this. If anyone here wants to come and play hit me up.)
- jiveturkey 8y ago
  > 4) The game I picked was important. I picked "The Resistance". It's similar to Mafia/Werewolf where you're basically all trying to figure out who's lying to you. So the game isn't what most folks think about when they think a game with cards or board games. It's really just talking and learning how people express themselves. Sounds a little bit too close to Diplomacy. A game that has famously ruined friendships. The stated goal of Diplomacy is not to figure out who's lying, but that is the actual goal.
marviel 8y ago
Do you know of any resources that assist in deepening interpersonal connections? I, and many others, would benefit greatly from them, if so!

Maybe business networking isn't overrated, but the way you form connections (shallow vs deep) that is the problem.

by tw1010 8y ago

Maybe business networking isn't overrated, but the way you form connections (shallow vs deep) that is the problem.

Networks, personal/professional/everything in-between, are not overrated. Anecdote but every job since my first one out of school came directly through people I had worked with in some capacity or other. However, contrast with "Networking" with a capital-N in the giving out business cards like candy at some business networking cocktail party. It's probably a combination of how deep the connection is as you say and just the general attitude that tends to pervade those sorts of events.

Consultant32452 8y ago
I have the opposite anecdote. I've never known anyone at any job I've ever gotten. FWIW, I get offers at about 80% of places that interview me. Admittedly, my understanding from some economics literature I've read is that your case is far more normal.
- ghaff 8y ago
  I'm sure it depends. If you have some broadly in-demand skill and it's obvious from your resume that you're competent at it (and, in fact, are), you may flow through the various filters pretty easily. You check the various boxes at a lot of companies and, in some ways, have a much bigger hunting ground. OTOH, post long-term job #1 I was relatively senior and didn't have a background that was particularly appealing to a lot of the cool young companies of the era. But I did have former co-workers at one place that gave me a quick offer. And, since then, it's been pretty specialized roles that came pretty much 100% through ongoing professional relationships.

scrooched_moose 8y ago

I think that's really the issue. I've received some big breaks by knowing the correct people, but not a single one of them has been a 2-minute connection from some BS networking event. It's always been a preexisting, unrelated relationship which eventually becomes career relevant. I'm shocked by the number of seniors/recent grads who contact me out of the blue (god knows where they got my info) asking for recommendations or a break. No, I'm not going to stick my neck out by recommending someone I've never met for an open position.

ghaff 8y ago
This. Hi! I'm one of the 100,000 people that happened to graduate from the same school that you did. Can you put in a referral for me? Mind you. I am often happy to respond to a few questions in an email (or even a quick call) from pretty much anyone. Though a good percentage of the time, when I do that I don't get so much as a Gmail form "Thanks."
joshklein 8y ago
On the other hand, when a recent grad or otherwise distant connection-of-a-connection reaches out to ask me to coffee or a 15-minute call to “pick my brain” about my career experiences (a so-called “informational interview”), I almost never turn them down.
- pthomas551 8y ago
  This is the way to do it. Then make the ask for a referral, interview, etc. at the end. It usually works, I've gotten a good job doing this.
pthomas551 8y ago
I'm not inherently opposed to referring people I don't know, as long as we have some sort of connection. The referral bonus at my company is pretty nice, after all. So what I do is ask for a CV and cover letter; if they're good I can upload all the documents straight into the HR system and save the candidate the trouble. In my experience, only a small minority of the cold outreach people actually respond to my request, and the responses I do get are usually low quality and don't merit a referral.

jpm_sd 8y ago

Every job I've had since my first job has been through a personal referral, from people I have worked closely with in the past. Not from people I met at "networking" events.

petra 8y ago

Maybe it's more about mutual favors, and not necessary shallow vs deep ? If you helped some remote contact of yours somehow(knowledge, connections, maybe even just lending a hand when he needed), I'm sure he would be much more likely to return the favor.

nate 8y ago

Well put. That's what's rubbed me the wrong way with all these networking events. A drink + a little small talk doesn't really deepen anything for me. One thing I've recently started that I've thoroughly been enjoying is throwing a "let's play a game over lunch" networking event. It does a few things differently that I've enjoyed. 1) It's over lunch. it doesn't require an obligation that takes me away from my loved ones in the evening. I'm going to eat lunch anyways, might as well do it with a group of friends or strangers. 2) We don't have to small talk. There's a game involved. There's rules to that help us to talk to each other. It's so much easier to do so then. 3) Playing a game deepens these relationships. I can't even explain it. But it's this artificial conflict that's been creating these stronger bonds with these folks I'm playing a game with. I can't wait to play the next game with them and have our chats afterwards. 4) The game I picked was important. I picked "The Resistance". It's similar to Mafia/Werewolf where you're basically all trying to figure out who's lying to you. So the game isn't what most folks think about when they think a game with cards or board games. It's really just talking and learning how people express themselves. So it really goes deep in examining people and having them examine you. It's a weird feeling to go through that type of process with acquaintances. But every time I've played a "lying game" like Mafia/Resistance with a group of acquaintances or new folks, I'm so much more comfortable talking to them about so many other things. It's been fun. I've been told by some folks it's in their top meetups they've ever done, and it takes ridiculously low effort. Just email some people to show up and play a game. Don't need to shell out for food/drinks/speakers/other garbage. (I'm in Chicago doing this. If anyone here wants to come and play hit me up.)

jiveturkey 8y ago
> 4) The game I picked was important. I picked "The Resistance". It's similar to Mafia/Werewolf where you're basically all trying to figure out who's lying to you. So the game isn't what most folks think about when they think a game with cards or board games. It's really just talking and learning how people express themselves. Sounds a little bit too close to Diplomacy. A game that has famously ruined friendships. The stated goal of Diplomacy is not to figure out who's lying, but that is the actual goal.

marviel 8y ago

Do you know of any resources that assist in deepening interpersonal connections? I, and many others, would benefit greatly from them, if so!