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> What is the common person, or collection of persons, supposed to do when they are against that kind of force? Vote. All sorts of interests lobby, all the ti

> What is the common person, or collection of persons, supposed to do when they are against that kind of force? Vote. All sorts of interests lobby, all the time. These include consumer-focused interest groups, as well as corporations. But, at the end of the day, politicians gain (and keep) office based on the votes of their constituents. These politicians are (generally) not going to vote on bills that they think might get them kicked out of office.

markovbot 8y ago
I've voted in every election I since I turned 18 and nothing seems to have been done about this and many other things. But issues that megacorps care about happen right away. Voting isn't a real solution to unchecked corporate lobbying.
- xenophon 8y ago
  The solution is reversing Citizen's United, when the Supreme Court held 5-4 that campaign contributions represented "freedom of speech" and could not be limited. In a literal sense, Citizen's United enshrined the idea that your voice (and vote) are proportional to the amount of money you can bring to bear. One of the lessons I've taken from this case and others related to gerrymandering and voter suppression, for instance, is how deeply the integrity our democracy depends on tactical execution of the broader ideals at stake. It's our ability to handle issues at the margin that will determine whether the whole thing works or falls apart.
  - parineum 8y ago
    Citizen's United affirmed that an individual's rights to make political speech isn't lost when that individual forms a corporation for the sole purpose of amplifying that speech. It's equivalent (this isn't an analogy, it's literally equivalent) to allowing a person to spend money to buy a megaphone to make their speech literally louder than everyone else's. Not everyone can afford a megaphone.
- sosborn 8y ago
  > I've voted in every election I since I turned 18 and nothing seems to have been done about this and many other things. It is also possible that the majority doesn't feel (read: vote) the same way about these issues as you. Would that mean that the system is flawed?
  - syn0byte 8y ago
    Results clearly indicate that isn't the case. EG the 2000 and 2016 elections. The level of cognitive dissonance the public has about politics is the most disheartening part of the whole burning shit show. Remember America; It's your own fault if he beats you, you made him do it.
    - sosborn 8y ago
      How do those two elections show that? Because of the popular vote in the presidential elections? Don't forget that our representatives (the people who actually are responsible for legislation) are voted in directly. No electoral college for them.
skh 8y ago
I suggest it's not as simple as just saying "vote" given the massive disparity in funding capabilities between the average citizen and the average Fortune 500 company. Money is powerful and greatly influences elections. Now due to media consolidation, Facebook, etc. it's also easy to manipulate at a grand scale. Politicians who vote the right way can guarantee very high paying jobs when they are out of office. It seems to me that democracy has been hijacked in the U.S. From my perspective, regardless of reason or solution it remains that corporations are not paying enough for the maintenance of society. Given that we have had free elections for some time it appears that the answer is more complex than just saying in theory we can vote out the scoundrels. In actuality this hasn't occurred and this suggests that something is wrong with the system.
- theevilsharpie 8y ago
  > I suggest it's not as simple as just saying "vote" given the massive disparity in funding capabilities between the average citizen and the average Fortune 500 company. Money is powerful and greatly influences elections You can find examples in almost any election of a heavily-funded initiative being defeated at the polls. Here in California, a recent example I can think of off the top of my head is the continual defeat of policies and politicians backed by charter school advocates, including in the Nov. 2018 election. > It seems to me that democracy has been hijacked in the U.S. Elected officials in the U.S. are in their positions because voters put them there. Unless you're claiming that substantial election fraud took place, you can't claim that democracy isn't working just because it didn't produce the result that you agree with.
  - skh 8y ago
    I can find examples of a roulette spin landing on 00. However such examples are rare. In the same way one can find examples of where a well funded candidate did not win when going against a relatively underfunded candidate. In circumstances of elections is best to talk about probabilities and concentrate on what is normative. ...you can't claim that democracy isn't working just because it didn't produce the result that you agree with. I claim that American democracy is broken because it consistently produces results that are not in the the long term interests of the nation and are not done in the interest of the people. There are lots of reasons to support my belief but none of them have anything to do with me personally not liking the results it produces. Indeed, I'm quite satisfied with the results of the last Presidential election cycle. My candidate won. I might be wrong in my belief that American democracy is broken.
equalarrow 8y ago
Won’t matter. ‘They’ donate to both sides of the isle. Lessig has a good video that breaks a lot of this process down. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy8vTu66tE https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy8vTu66tE
- elliekelly 8y ago
  Wow, interesting video. Thanks for sharing!

markovbot 8y ago

I've voted in every election I since I turned 18 and nothing seems to have been done about this and many other things. But issues that megacorps care about happen right away. Voting isn't a real solution to unchecked corporate lobbying.

xenophon 8y ago
The solution is reversing Citizen's United, when the Supreme Court held 5-4 that campaign contributions represented "freedom of speech" and could not be limited. In a literal sense, Citizen's United enshrined the idea that your voice (and vote) are proportional to the amount of money you can bring to bear. One of the lessons I've taken from this case and others related to gerrymandering and voter suppression, for instance, is how deeply the integrity our democracy depends on tactical execution of the broader ideals at stake. It's our ability to handle issues at the margin that will determine whether the whole thing works or falls apart.
- parineum 8y ago
  Citizen's United affirmed that an individual's rights to make political speech isn't lost when that individual forms a corporation for the sole purpose of amplifying that speech. It's equivalent (this isn't an analogy, it's literally equivalent) to allowing a person to spend money to buy a megaphone to make their speech literally louder than everyone else's. Not everyone can afford a megaphone.
sosborn 8y ago
> I've voted in every election I since I turned 18 and nothing seems to have been done about this and many other things. It is also possible that the majority doesn't feel (read: vote) the same way about these issues as you. Would that mean that the system is flawed?
- syn0byte 8y ago
  Results clearly indicate that isn't the case. EG the 2000 and 2016 elections. The level of cognitive dissonance the public has about politics is the most disheartening part of the whole burning shit show. Remember America; It's your own fault if he beats you, you made him do it.
  - sosborn 8y ago
    How do those two elections show that? Because of the popular vote in the presidential elections? Don't forget that our representatives (the people who actually are responsible for legislation) are voted in directly. No electoral college for them.

skh 8y ago

I suggest it's not as simple as just saying "vote" given the massive disparity in funding capabilities between the average citizen and the average Fortune 500 company. Money is powerful and greatly influences elections. Now due to media consolidation, Facebook, etc. it's also easy to manipulate at a grand scale. Politicians who vote the right way can guarantee very high paying jobs when they are out of office. It seems to me that democracy has been hijacked in the U.S. From my perspective, regardless of reason or solution it remains that corporations are not paying enough for the maintenance of society. Given that we have had free elections for some time it appears that the answer is more complex than just saying in theory we can vote out the scoundrels. In actuality this hasn't occurred and this suggests that something is wrong with the system.

theevilsharpie 8y ago
> I suggest it's not as simple as just saying "vote" given the massive disparity in funding capabilities between the average citizen and the average Fortune 500 company. Money is powerful and greatly influences elections You can find examples in almost any election of a heavily-funded initiative being defeated at the polls. Here in California, a recent example I can think of off the top of my head is the continual defeat of policies and politicians backed by charter school advocates, including in the Nov. 2018 election. > It seems to me that democracy has been hijacked in the U.S. Elected officials in the U.S. are in their positions because voters put them there. Unless you're claiming that substantial election fraud took place, you can't claim that democracy isn't working just because it didn't produce the result that you agree with.
- skh 8y ago
  I can find examples of a roulette spin landing on 00. However such examples are rare. In the same way one can find examples of where a well funded candidate did not win when going against a relatively underfunded candidate. In circumstances of elections is best to talk about probabilities and concentrate on what is normative. ...you can't claim that democracy isn't working just because it didn't produce the result that you agree with. I claim that American democracy is broken because it consistently produces results that are not in the the long term interests of the nation and are not done in the interest of the people. There are lots of reasons to support my belief but none of them have anything to do with me personally not liking the results it produces. Indeed, I'm quite satisfied with the results of the last Presidential election cycle. My candidate won. I might be wrong in my belief that American democracy is broken.

equalarrow 8y ago

Won’t matter. ‘They’ donate to both sides of the isle. Lessig has a good video that breaks a lot of this process down. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy8vTu66tE https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy8vTu66tE

elliekelly 8y ago
Wow, interesting video. Thanks for sharing!