4 ms·

When I was a kid, growing up, I recall when the "moral majority" (umbrella term describing the coalition of various protestant groups), and they decided right a

When I was a kid, growing up, I recall when the "moral majority" (umbrella term describing the coalition of various protestant groups), and they decided right and wrong, and had the power to a large degree, to shove that down other people's throats. Everything was closed on Sundays, dry counties (no alcohol sales), various conservative dress/grooming/self-expression conventions. They have mostly lost this influence and power, only to be replaced by something equally distasteful, your explanation not withstanding. You sound exactly like the supporters. Sure the details differ, but you've nailed down the "ends justify the means" spin, just like every other movement that wants to push their world view and morality. The kicker is the whole "it's not enforcing morality" or defending a world view schtik. It's deciding not to do business with various groups of people, under pressure from other groups of people. As a JFK democrat, and individual, I say fuck that. Good riddance.

Nursie 8y ago
I'm sorry, this is ridiculous. Patreon runs a business. You'd force them to do business with people they have no desire to do business with. You're the authoritarian in that picture. There's no reason to think that there's any mysterious group forcing Patreon to act. I'm neither of the right nor the left, this is a choice of the business, they chose not to do business with someone being actively hateful. Not someone taking a political stance, but someone spewing out prejudice, hatred and bile. I fully support them. (I cannot reply to the below, being rate limited. The cake thing is discrimination on who someone is, not what they do. Different things. And this is hardly a freedom of speech issue, nobody is denying them the ability to express themselves, I am not obligated to bring you lemonade and let you shout hatred from my front yard in the name of FoS. )
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  > You'd force them to do business with people they have no desire to do business with. We're allowed to do that as a society. Or do you not want same sex couples to be able to get a cake? (half /s) > but someone spewing out prejudice, hatred and bile. This is called freedom of speech. Hate speech is still protected speech (at least in the US).
- ConceptJunkie 8y ago
  I don't think anyone is calling for forcing Patreon to do anything. They are just looking for an alternative that doesn't behave like Patreon. It's like Free Speech. You can't just allow free speech for things you want to hear or it's not free. Patreon has chosen to not allow free speech, and it's their right as a private entity to do that. The market should decide whether or not to support this principle. Another company could come along and say that they won't discriminate against people based on political ideology or anything like that, and a lot of people would support that, even if it means the company would be helping projects they find offensive.
  - Nursie 8y ago
    And that's fine! Great even. "You do you" as people say these days :) I'm not arguing that these folks shouldn't be able to say their piece, and shouldn't be able to get contributions from their followers, however hateful and misguided Just that the likes of Patreon are under no obligation to help them out.
    - ConceptJunkie 8y ago
      Of course not. I never said anything to the contrary.
  - specialist 8y ago
    Why do all the Freedom Speeches™ zealots ignore all the other rights, such as freedom of association?
    - scottlocklin 8y ago
      Obviously someone hasn't thought this through. If you can discriminate against someone based on their political views, or even ... "something they once said" -which seems to be the substance of all this patreon deplatforming and nazi-calling, you can do so based on their race, sexual habits, color of their shirt, gender, religious identity, ethnicity, cut of their jib, or what city they live in. So, like, welcome to the legal arguments used by "whites only" restaurants and hotels in the south under segregation. FWIIW someone like Ron Paul who is a "freedom speeches zealot" agrees with you that the whole public accommodation thing violates the rights of businesses.

Nursie 8y ago

I'm sorry, this is ridiculous. Patreon runs a business. You'd force them to do business with people they have no desire to do business with. You're the authoritarian in that picture. There's no reason to think that there's any mysterious group forcing Patreon to act. I'm neither of the right nor the left, this is a choice of the business, they chose not to do business with someone being actively hateful. Not someone taking a political stance, but someone spewing out prejudice, hatred and bile. I fully support them. (I cannot reply to the below, being rate limited. The cake thing is discrimination on who someone is, not what they do. Different things. And this is hardly a freedom of speech issue, nobody is denying them the ability to express themselves, I am not obligated to bring you lemonade and let you shout hatred from my front yard in the name of FoS. )

toomuchtodo 8y ago
> You'd force them to do business with people they have no desire to do business with. We're allowed to do that as a society. Or do you not want same sex couples to be able to get a cake? (half /s) > but someone spewing out prejudice, hatred and bile. This is called freedom of speech. Hate speech is still protected speech (at least in the US).
ConceptJunkie 8y ago
I don't think anyone is calling for forcing Patreon to do anything. They are just looking for an alternative that doesn't behave like Patreon. It's like Free Speech. You can't just allow free speech for things you want to hear or it's not free. Patreon has chosen to not allow free speech, and it's their right as a private entity to do that. The market should decide whether or not to support this principle. Another company could come along and say that they won't discriminate against people based on political ideology or anything like that, and a lot of people would support that, even if it means the company would be helping projects they find offensive.
- Nursie 8y ago
  And that's fine! Great even. "You do you" as people say these days :) I'm not arguing that these folks shouldn't be able to say their piece, and shouldn't be able to get contributions from their followers, however hateful and misguided Just that the likes of Patreon are under no obligation to help them out.
  - ConceptJunkie 8y ago
    Of course not. I never said anything to the contrary.
- specialist 8y ago
  Why do all the Freedom Speeches™ zealots ignore all the other rights, such as freedom of association?
  - scottlocklin 8y ago
    Obviously someone hasn't thought this through. If you can discriminate against someone based on their political views, or even ... "something they once said" -which seems to be the substance of all this patreon deplatforming and nazi-calling, you can do so based on their race, sexual habits, color of their shirt, gender, religious identity, ethnicity, cut of their jib, or what city they live in. So, like, welcome to the legal arguments used by "whites only" restaurants and hotels in the south under segregation. FWIIW someone like Ron Paul who is a "freedom speeches zealot" agrees with you that the whole public accommodation thing violates the rights of businesses.