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No my answer boils down to: - hooks are technically interesting, but make it easy for humans to screw up. It's a precise critic. - the JS community has bad ha

No my answer boils down to: - hooks are technically interesting, but make it easy for humans to screw up. It's a precise critic. - the JS community has bad habits that can catalyse this, and above all, may lead them to avoid seing what's wrong - they get angry when we say it, and dismiss it as nonsense. Case in point.

james_s_tayler 8y ago
The behavior that you see from a system is the behavior that that system encourages. I guess the proof will be in the pudding as to what hooks actually encourage. I find a healthy dose of 'gloating dismissive' skepticism is usually a good thing. Because it stands in stark contrast 'gloating dismissive' dismissals of criticisms as 'nonsense' that usually come in the form "nah you just don't get it". UI paradigms in particular warrant a good deal of skepticism in general. Every time it's "this is way!!!" and there are a whole slew of issues people regret wading into eventually down the line. Then new stuff comes out to fix those issues and "THIS is the way!!!" with the assumption that the new way doesn't have it's own problems (or at least the optimism is just ignoring them as they aren't salient enough yet to impact thinking). This just keeps playing out over and over. No reason its different this time. So, I think it's absolutely fair to say "I wonder what nastiness come along with hooks that we are accepting as a trade-off for the potential benefits of Hooks?". At the same you can't compute the actual result as an intellectual exercise, so a healthy degree of optimism is warranted too in which we also ought to say "I'm excited to see if this really is the way and maybe we wont arrive at front-end utopia just yet, but hopefully we will get one step closer through the learnings".
- sametmax 8y ago
  That's a fair answer. And for the record, I don't thing we should not give a try to hooks, I just emit doubts.
albertgao 8y ago
`hooks are technically interesting, but make it easy for humans to screw up. It's a precise critic.` You just haven't tried it, right? I love when people talking big but in fact they have 0 exp on some topic. As one who has adopted hooks in production for 2 projects, one is med-big size. You CAN NOT screw up. Because if you did, it even won't work or won't build. And how it helps to decouple logic and code sharing is fantastic.
- sametmax 8y ago
  I don't expect bugs as a screw up, i expect technical debt.

james_s_tayler 8y ago

The behavior that you see from a system is the behavior that that system encourages. I guess the proof will be in the pudding as to what hooks actually encourage. I find a healthy dose of 'gloating dismissive' skepticism is usually a good thing. Because it stands in stark contrast 'gloating dismissive' dismissals of criticisms as 'nonsense' that usually come in the form "nah you just don't get it". UI paradigms in particular warrant a good deal of skepticism in general. Every time it's "this is way!!!" and there are a whole slew of issues people regret wading into eventually down the line. Then new stuff comes out to fix those issues and "THIS is the way!!!" with the assumption that the new way doesn't have it's own problems (or at least the optimism is just ignoring them as they aren't salient enough yet to impact thinking). This just keeps playing out over and over. No reason its different this time. So, I think it's absolutely fair to say "I wonder what nastiness come along with hooks that we are accepting as a trade-off for the potential benefits of Hooks?". At the same you can't compute the actual result as an intellectual exercise, so a healthy degree of optimism is warranted too in which we also ought to say "I'm excited to see if this really is the way and maybe we wont arrive at front-end utopia just yet, but hopefully we will get one step closer through the learnings".

sametmax 8y ago
That's a fair answer. And for the record, I don't thing we should not give a try to hooks, I just emit doubts.

albertgao 8y ago

`hooks are technically interesting, but make it easy for humans to screw up. It's a precise critic.` You just haven't tried it, right? I love when people talking big but in fact they have 0 exp on some topic. As one who has adopted hooks in production for 2 projects, one is med-big size. You CAN NOT screw up. Because if you did, it even won't work or won't build. And how it helps to decouple logic and code sharing is fantastic.

sametmax 8y ago
I don't expect bugs as a screw up, i expect technical debt.