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There was a big controversy over Sargon being suspended, and this has prompted some other high-profile creators to leave the platform. https://podnews.net/upda

There was a big controversy over Sargon being suspended, and this has prompted some other high-profile creators to leave the platform. https://podnews.net/update/patreon-controversy https://podnews.net/update/patreon-controversy

Nursie 8y ago
Yeah he sounds like a racist, misogynist, homophobic arse. Not surprised they didn't want to do business with him. That's their right. --edit-- maybe I'm wrong, but the tirade I saw here sounds pretty awful - https://heavy.com/news/2018/12/patreon-sargon-of-akkad-jordan-peterson/ https://heavy.com/news/2018/12/patreon-sargon-of-akkad-jorda...
- normal_man 8y ago
  You're not wrong, he's a complete piece of shit
  - bluGill 8y ago
    True, but do you want to do business with a company that an enforce morality like that?
    - Nursie 8y ago
      Honestly? Yeah I'm fine with it. Even makes me think better of them. That tirade isn't any sort of reasoned political argument, it's a hate-laden diatribe showing off some awful underlying attitudes. It's not 'enforcing morality', it's deciding not to do business with someone. That individual can do what they like, free speech is preserved, but they have no god-given right to use someone else's platform to raise money.
      - sfsfsf6666 8y ago
        When I was a kid, growing up, I recall when the "moral majority" (umbrella term describing the coalition of various protestant groups), and they decided right and wrong, and had the power to a large degree, to shove that down other people's throats. Everything was closed on Sundays, dry counties (no alcohol sales), various conservative dress/grooming/self-expression conventions. They have mostly lost this influence and power, only to be replaced by something equally distasteful, your explanation not withstanding. You sound exactly like the supporters. Sure the details differ, but you've nailed down the "ends justify the means" spin, just like every other movement that wants to push their world view and morality. The kicker is the whole "it's not enforcing morality" or defending a world view schtik. It's deciding not to do business with various groups of people, under pressure from other groups of people. As a JFK democrat, and individual, I say fuck that. Good riddance.
        Nursie 8y ago
        I'm sorry, this is ridiculous. Patreon runs a business. You'd force them to do business with people they have no desire to do business with. You're the authoritarian in that picture. There's no reason to think that there's any mysterious group forcing Patreon to act. I'm neither of the right nor the left, this is a choice of the business, they chose not to do business with someone being actively hateful. Not someone taking a political stance, but someone spewing out prejudice, hatred and bile. I fully support them. (I cannot reply to the below, being rate limited. The cake thing is discrimination on who someone is, not what they do. Different things. And this is hardly a freedom of speech issue, nobody is denying them the ability to express themselves, I am not obligated to bring you lemonade and let you shout hatred from my front yard in the name of FoS. )
        toomuchtodo 8y ago
        > You'd force them to do business with people they have no desire to do business with. We're allowed to do that as a society. Or do you not want same sex couples to be able to get a cake? (half /s) > but someone spewing out prejudice, hatred and bile. This is called freedom of speech. Hate speech is still protected speech (at least in the US).
    - normal_man 8y ago
      Yeah I do. Nazis can fuck off, and anyone who allows them on their platform is a collaborator.
      - ConceptJunkie 8y ago
        OK, but our First Amendment allows Nazis to speak freely in this country. No one likes that, except the Nazis, but does that make us all collaborators?
        normal_man 8y ago
        It allows them to speak without legal repercussions from the government. The first amendment doesn't say "Patreon has to allow any hateful dipshit to use their service"
        ConceptJunkie 8y ago
        You're reading me completely backwards. If Patreon are collaborators for allowing Nazis to use their platform, then are we collaborators for allowing Nazis to have free speech in our country? If the answer to the first is "yes", then why is the answer to the second "no"?
        StellarTabi 8y ago
        https://xkcd.com/1357/ https://xkcd.com/1357/ doesn't mean patreon has to host it
        ConceptJunkie 8y ago
        I never suggested it did.
        iron0013 8y ago
        You did though, by invoking the first amendment, which really doesn't apply in this context.
    - rchaud 8y ago
      I'll do business with whoever offers the best terms at the lowest risk to me. If my business is ranting online about the political wedge issue of the day and e-panhandling, I'd avoid Patreon.
    - specialist 8y ago
      Absolutely. Most of my consumption is virtue signaling. I actively seek out curation matching my values. Certified fair trade, organic, wild caught, living wages, journalism with actual fact checking & double sourcing, local & family run, etc. Of course, I have to make exceptions. For example: Home Depot is always my last choice, after my other options have been exhausted. PS- It's just branding as a proxy for trust.
      - specialist 8y ago
        PPS- I'm SO SORRY for exercising my right to freedom of association, aka voting with my dollars, which must always be subsumed by Freedom Markets™ and the obligation to respect all opinions equally. Because corporatists have feelings too.
    - iron0013 8y ago
      Yes, absolutely.
- hanklazard 8y ago
  Yeah, he seems to be a pretty hateful, nasty person based on what has been reported, though I’ll admit I’ve never watched / listened to any of his stuff. I think the concern is that if Patreon becomes a sort of moral police, then it gives them huge power over the purse-strings of creators. Sam Harris and others don’t like that idea, for understandable reasons. Sam and Joe Rogan and others get labeled “alt-right” a lot by people who don’t like the discussions they’re willing to have. The problem is that even after removing oneself from patreon, there is still a large company in charge of one’s payments ... a credit card company. Would Visa or MasterCard do the same under heavy social media or political pressure? Probably. So how would someone effectively mitigate this funding threat? Cryptocurrency maybe, if it was more stable and widely used.
  - rchaud 8y ago
    They can tell the faithful to send a check to a PO box. Works for televangelists, no reason it wouldn't work for 'thought leaders'.
- buboard 8y ago
  Was he asked to apologize for it?
- collyw 8y ago
  "sounds like" So you have not gone to the trouble of listening to him before commenting?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- tomjen3 8y ago
  If I was an artist I wouldn't want to risk my livelyhood on the assumption that nobody objected to what I did. Piss Christs; naked statues; slaughtering a horse (in public) to protest the Vietnam war; putting ones shit in cans and sell those; etc are all things that artists have done that pisses people of. Heck in the US you could be called an arse (or worse) if you salute the flag or if you don't. They may still be able to legally ban them, political opinions (so long as they are not caused by a religious mandate) is not a protected class (though looking at how devided the US is, that maybe the end result), but given that a big target marked for your business is artists, why would you?
  - minikites 8y ago
    A big part of what makes art good is taking risks. Safe art (e.g. Thomas Kinkade) is kind of boring (which is not to say it isn't enjoyable on its own terms).
- DuskStar 8y ago
  From the link: > “I just can’t be bothered with people who chose to treat me like this. It’s really annoying. Like, I — . You’re acting like a bunch of ns, just so you know. You act like white ns. Exactly how you describe black people acting is the impression I get dealing with the Alt Right. I’m really, I’m just not in the mood to deal with this kind of disrespect.” > “Look, you carry on, but don’t expect me to then have a debate with one of your fgots.…Like why would I bother?…Maybe you’re just acting like a nr, mate? Have you considered that? Do you think white people act like this? White people are meant to be polite and respectful to one another, and you guys can’t even act like white people, it’s really amazing to me.” IIRC the context of that tirade was that he was complaining about the literal white supremacists who harass him - and was directing their language back at them. (Supposedly it was also those white supremacists who reported him to Patreon) Major tactical error here, but I can't entirely disagree with the sentiment. Attacking someone with their own stated beliefs is something I'm a big fan of.

Nursie 8y ago

Yeah he sounds like a racist, misogynist, homophobic arse. Not surprised they didn't want to do business with him. That's their right. --edit-- maybe I'm wrong, but the tirade I saw here sounds pretty awful - https://heavy.com/news/2018/12/patreon-sargon-of-akkad-jordan-peterson/ https://heavy.com/news/2018/12/patreon-sargon-of-akkad-jorda...

normal_man 8y ago
You're not wrong, he's a complete piece of shit
- bluGill 8y ago
  True, but do you want to do business with a company that an enforce morality like that?
  - Nursie 8y ago
    Honestly? Yeah I'm fine with it. Even makes me think better of them. That tirade isn't any sort of reasoned political argument, it's a hate-laden diatribe showing off some awful underlying attitudes. It's not 'enforcing morality', it's deciding not to do business with someone. That individual can do what they like, free speech is preserved, but they have no god-given right to use someone else's platform to raise money.
    - sfsfsf6666 8y ago
      When I was a kid, growing up, I recall when the "moral majority" (umbrella term describing the coalition of various protestant groups), and they decided right and wrong, and had the power to a large degree, to shove that down other people's throats. Everything was closed on Sundays, dry counties (no alcohol sales), various conservative dress/grooming/self-expression conventions. They have mostly lost this influence and power, only to be replaced by something equally distasteful, your explanation not withstanding. You sound exactly like the supporters. Sure the details differ, but you've nailed down the "ends justify the means" spin, just like every other movement that wants to push their world view and morality. The kicker is the whole "it's not enforcing morality" or defending a world view schtik. It's deciding not to do business with various groups of people, under pressure from other groups of people. As a JFK democrat, and individual, I say fuck that. Good riddance.
      - Nursie 8y ago
        I'm sorry, this is ridiculous. Patreon runs a business. You'd force them to do business with people they have no desire to do business with. You're the authoritarian in that picture. There's no reason to think that there's any mysterious group forcing Patreon to act. I'm neither of the right nor the left, this is a choice of the business, they chose not to do business with someone being actively hateful. Not someone taking a political stance, but someone spewing out prejudice, hatred and bile. I fully support them. (I cannot reply to the below, being rate limited. The cake thing is discrimination on who someone is, not what they do. Different things. And this is hardly a freedom of speech issue, nobody is denying them the ability to express themselves, I am not obligated to bring you lemonade and let you shout hatred from my front yard in the name of FoS. )
        toomuchtodo 8y ago
        > You'd force them to do business with people they have no desire to do business with. We're allowed to do that as a society. Or do you not want same sex couples to be able to get a cake? (half /s) > but someone spewing out prejudice, hatred and bile. This is called freedom of speech. Hate speech is still protected speech (at least in the US).
  - normal_man 8y ago
    Yeah I do. Nazis can fuck off, and anyone who allows them on their platform is a collaborator.
    - ConceptJunkie 8y ago
      OK, but our First Amendment allows Nazis to speak freely in this country. No one likes that, except the Nazis, but does that make us all collaborators?
      - normal_man 8y ago
        It allows them to speak without legal repercussions from the government. The first amendment doesn't say "Patreon has to allow any hateful dipshit to use their service"
        ConceptJunkie 8y ago
        You're reading me completely backwards. If Patreon are collaborators for allowing Nazis to use their platform, then are we collaborators for allowing Nazis to have free speech in our country? If the answer to the first is "yes", then why is the answer to the second "no"?
      - StellarTabi 8y ago
        https://xkcd.com/1357/ https://xkcd.com/1357/ doesn't mean patreon has to host it
        ConceptJunkie 8y ago
        I never suggested it did.
        iron0013 8y ago
        You did though, by invoking the first amendment, which really doesn't apply in this context.
  - rchaud 8y ago
    I'll do business with whoever offers the best terms at the lowest risk to me. If my business is ranting online about the political wedge issue of the day and e-panhandling, I'd avoid Patreon.
  - specialist 8y ago
    Absolutely. Most of my consumption is virtue signaling. I actively seek out curation matching my values. Certified fair trade, organic, wild caught, living wages, journalism with actual fact checking & double sourcing, local & family run, etc. Of course, I have to make exceptions. For example: Home Depot is always my last choice, after my other options have been exhausted. PS- It's just branding as a proxy for trust.
    - specialist 8y ago
      PPS- I'm SO SORRY for exercising my right to freedom of association, aka voting with my dollars, which must always be subsumed by Freedom Markets™ and the obligation to respect all opinions equally. Because corporatists have feelings too.
  - iron0013 8y ago
    Yes, absolutely.
hanklazard 8y ago
Yeah, he seems to be a pretty hateful, nasty person based on what has been reported, though I’ll admit I’ve never watched / listened to any of his stuff. I think the concern is that if Patreon becomes a sort of moral police, then it gives them huge power over the purse-strings of creators. Sam Harris and others don’t like that idea, for understandable reasons. Sam and Joe Rogan and others get labeled “alt-right” a lot by people who don’t like the discussions they’re willing to have. The problem is that even after removing oneself from patreon, there is still a large company in charge of one’s payments ... a credit card company. Would Visa or MasterCard do the same under heavy social media or political pressure? Probably. So how would someone effectively mitigate this funding threat? Cryptocurrency maybe, if it was more stable and widely used.
- rchaud 8y ago
  They can tell the faithful to send a check to a PO box. Works for televangelists, no reason it wouldn't work for 'thought leaders'.
buboard 8y ago
Was he asked to apologize for it?
collyw 8y ago
"sounds like" So you have not gone to the trouble of listening to him before commenting?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
tomjen3 8y ago
If I was an artist I wouldn't want to risk my livelyhood on the assumption that nobody objected to what I did. Piss Christs; naked statues; slaughtering a horse (in public) to protest the Vietnam war; putting ones shit in cans and sell those; etc are all things that artists have done that pisses people of. Heck in the US you could be called an arse (or worse) if you salute the flag or if you don't. They may still be able to legally ban them, political opinions (so long as they are not caused by a religious mandate) is not a protected class (though looking at how devided the US is, that maybe the end result), but given that a big target marked for your business is artists, why would you?
- minikites 8y ago
  A big part of what makes art good is taking risks. Safe art (e.g. Thomas Kinkade) is kind of boring (which is not to say it isn't enjoyable on its own terms).
DuskStar 8y ago
From the link: > “I just can’t be bothered with people who chose to treat me like this. It’s really annoying. Like, I — . You’re acting like a bunch of ns, just so you know. You act like white ns. Exactly how you describe black people acting is the impression I get dealing with the Alt Right. I’m really, I’m just not in the mood to deal with this kind of disrespect.” > “Look, you carry on, but don’t expect me to then have a debate with one of your fgots.…Like why would I bother?…Maybe you’re just acting like a nr, mate? Have you considered that? Do you think white people act like this? White people are meant to be polite and respectful to one another, and you guys can’t even act like white people, it’s really amazing to me.” IIRC the context of that tirade was that he was complaining about the literal white supremacists who harass him - and was directing their language back at them. (Supposedly it was also those white supremacists who reported him to Patreon) Major tactical error here, but I can't entirely disagree with the sentiment. Attacking someone with their own stated beliefs is something I'm a big fan of.