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The decline of history departments in universities is not the same as the decline of "hitorical thinking", though the two phenomena might or might have a common

by kijin 8y ago

The decline of history departments in universities is not the same as the decline of "hitorical thinking", though the two phenomena might or might have a common cause. One can have a keen appreciation of history without ever having set foot in a history class in university. If this weren't possible, historical thinking would be doomed anyway. If historians really care about historical thinking as an ability, they should stop complaining about the size of their departments and actually go out and find a way to encourage the general public to take an interest in history, not just the small subset who choose history as a major. Ditto for literature, philosophy, and most of the rest of the humanities. These are things that every educated person should be familiar with. Disclaimer: I haz a Ph.D. in the humanities. I don't work in academia.

jacobolus 8y ago
> they should stop complaining about the size of their departments and actually go out and find a way to encourage the general public Do you have any suggestions? Many historians write popularly-aimed books, make media appearances, give public lectures, .... Academics I know prioritize getting their own work done above starting new public outreach projects or the like, and already feel stressed about not getting enough time to do their work in the face of many competing draws on their finite attention including teaching, administrative nonsense, their own families, ... > One can have a keen appreciation of history without ever having set foot in a history class in university. One cannot develop the thinking style / methods of inquiry of working historians without actually doing years of relevant work and getting lots of feedback, which is possible but frankly extremely rare and difficult outside of universities. Historians, ethnographers, critics, journalists, philosophers, statisticians, corporate managers, diplomats, intelligence analysts, prosecutors, ... have different approaches to problems and dramatically different perspectives. Just reading a handful of books doesn’t really manage to train a student in a whole system of thinking. Even getting the barest appreciation for what those ways of thinking are about, how they differ, why they are valuable, etc. takes significant engagement from students. At least up through high school students have very little engagement with real scholastic or professional working styles or methods of inquiry. Secondary schools focus almost entirely on “content”, meaning more or less trivia, and most of the general public thinks that e.g. the job of a historian is to discover more precise lists of facts about the past.
- kijin 8y ago
  > Just reading a handful of books doesn’t really manage to train a student in a whole system of thinking. Not everyone needs to be trained in a whole system of thinking. Does everyone need to know how to do brain surgery or navigate a difficult diplomatic situation? There should be history students, and there always will be. What I'm pointing out is that having more history students is not necessarily better than having more people among the general public who appreciate the importance of history at a basic level and stop to think about it when they vote, for example. > Do you have any suggestions? Perhaps more historians should write popular books and give public lectures. But even better, I think historians should find a way to make their knowledge useful in different fields like journalism, tourism, art, law, etc. For every academic who landed a tenure-track position and is too busy to do anything else, there are several Ph.D.s who are chronically un- or under-employed. I hope they stop wasting time trying to feed the exploitative machine that is the academic labor market, and start doing their own thing. The greatest thing about the humanities is that it can be useful no matter what else you do. The best way to make others appreciate your knowledge of history, literature, or philosophy is to show them through the example of your own life how it helps you be a better person, as well as better at what you do.
  - AlotOfReading 8y ago
    Are you kidding about historical information not being applicable enough to tourism? Versailles, the Acropolis, the Great Wall, D.C., Stonehenge, Machu Picchu...?
    - kijin 8y ago
      Of course it's related, hence the suggestion.
  - watwut 8y ago
    If you don't undestand at least a little about historical thinking, you will take exactly wrong lessons from books and historical texts. It also is not nearly as complicated as knowing details of brain surgery.

by kijin 8y ago

jacobolus 8y ago

> they should stop complaining about the size of their departments and actually go out and find a way to encourage the general public Do you have any suggestions? Many historians write popularly-aimed books, make media appearances, give public lectures, .... Academics I know prioritize getting their own work done above starting new public outreach projects or the like, and already feel stressed about not getting enough time to do their work in the face of many competing draws on their finite attention including teaching, administrative nonsense, their own families, ... > One can have a keen appreciation of history without ever having set foot in a history class in university. One cannot develop the thinking style / methods of inquiry of working historians without actually doing years of relevant work and getting lots of feedback, which is possible but frankly extremely rare and difficult outside of universities. Historians, ethnographers, critics, journalists, philosophers, statisticians, corporate managers, diplomats, intelligence analysts, prosecutors, ... have different approaches to problems and dramatically different perspectives. Just reading a handful of books doesn’t really manage to train a student in a whole system of thinking. Even getting the barest appreciation for what those ways of thinking are about, how they differ, why they are valuable, etc. takes significant engagement from students. At least up through high school students have very little engagement with real scholastic or professional working styles or methods of inquiry. Secondary schools focus almost entirely on “content”, meaning more or less trivia, and most of the general public thinks that e.g. the job of a historian is to discover more precise lists of facts about the past.

kijin 8y ago
> Just reading a handful of books doesn’t really manage to train a student in a whole system of thinking. Not everyone needs to be trained in a whole system of thinking. Does everyone need to know how to do brain surgery or navigate a difficult diplomatic situation? There should be history students, and there always will be. What I'm pointing out is that having more history students is not necessarily better than having more people among the general public who appreciate the importance of history at a basic level and stop to think about it when they vote, for example. > Do you have any suggestions? Perhaps more historians should write popular books and give public lectures. But even better, I think historians should find a way to make their knowledge useful in different fields like journalism, tourism, art, law, etc. For every academic who landed a tenure-track position and is too busy to do anything else, there are several Ph.D.s who are chronically un- or under-employed. I hope they stop wasting time trying to feed the exploitative machine that is the academic labor market, and start doing their own thing. The greatest thing about the humanities is that it can be useful no matter what else you do. The best way to make others appreciate your knowledge of history, literature, or philosophy is to show them through the example of your own life how it helps you be a better person, as well as better at what you do.
- AlotOfReading 8y ago
  Are you kidding about historical information not being applicable enough to tourism? Versailles, the Acropolis, the Great Wall, D.C., Stonehenge, Machu Picchu...?
  - kijin 8y ago
    Of course it's related, hence the suggestion.
- watwut 8y ago
  If you don't undestand at least a little about historical thinking, you will take exactly wrong lessons from books and historical texts. It also is not nearly as complicated as knowing details of brain surgery.