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Amazon has finally admitted to investors that it has a counterfeit problem

56 points by strict9 8y ago

xfitm3 8y ago
Amazon admitting this is a business risk to shareholders is a great start but what I really want to see is a commitment to solving this problem. I can't help but be a bit pessimistic here and think that Amazon will do the bare minimum to protect their business. I was talking with a friend about Amazon the other day and anecdata is the customer experience is on the decline. Bad experiences with counterfeit products just compounds this problem.
- pytyper2 8y ago
  They can't solve it because in many cases you are not buying from amazon, you are buying from some rando merchant who posted an ad. Unless it is sold by amazon (not FBA or seller fulfilled) the relationship is no different than Buy It Now on Ebay. The actual risk is that people realize this and generally stop thinking of amazon as premium and realize it is pretty much another eBay style marketplace in disguise. The only possible solution is to run a process like StockX, but good luck training seasonal workers to spot some fake Yeezy sneakers... I guess they could buy StockX and outsource authentication of Luxury brand items that are not received from an official supply chain. I'm with you though, it needs to be solved, not just accounted for.
  - uponcoffee 8y ago
    You don't need to train floor employees to spot counter fits, they just need to fix ratings to enable customers to make an informed choice. Counterfeit items work because counterfeit ratings keep them promoted in search results. Ebay works on a trust system, feedback is good/bad/neutral with a short dialogue and rolling seller ratings over a few timescales to help users guage product/seller quality. It works reasonably well. With Amazon you need to use third party tools to filter out the bots get a similar level of information, but you have to manually wade through a bunch of bad results.
    - CaptainZapp 8y ago
      How about buying either at the stores of branded goods manufacturers, or their certified outlets? Buying very expensive brands from Amazon is an invite to get a fake since no reputable brand (in the very expensive segment) will use Amazon as a retail channel. Even with lesser brands you run a super high risk of not getting the real thing. This story[1] is a reminder of what you're likely wind up with. Upon reading it I was just shaking my head and thinking "I could have told you so" [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/01/counterfeit-canada-goose-amazon/581041/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/01/count...
      - pytyper2 8y ago
        This is what I do, my opinions on e-commerce have changed over the years, I source following this priority: locally boutique or small stores, boutique or brand websites, local big box, online big box.
    - pytyper2 8y ago
      This seems like a more difficult problem, is there any marketplace that has solved the fake review problem? Spotting a fake sneaker is probably 99% accurate for a trained buyer, but spotting a fake review, not so much.
  - amscanne 8y ago
    I was under the impression that all widgets are equal in Amazon's inventory and logistics system, so items from all FBA sellers and Amazon itself are intermixed. That is, buying from Amazon or a specific seller is no guarantee of a genuine product. Is this not the case? (This is worse than eBay, since you can't even choose your supplier by reputation.)
    - hnnh44 8y ago
      This isn't correct. There are "comingled" and "non comingled". Sellers pay more for the latter. Also, there's FBA and non-FBA. Better distinction on the buyer side would go a long way Of course, Amazon doesn't want any 1 seller becoming too poplular because that means they can stop competing on price.
bdibs 8y ago
It also appears they’re making some changes as well. I sell on FBA and recently had to create new listings that force the Amazon barcode instead of the manufacturers, which is where the commingling happens. I’m sure this isn’t all products (large brands are probably still using manufacturing barcodes), but it should help nonetheless.
chmaynard 8y ago
Companies like Amazon have created huge, useful online marketplaces for new and used products and services. The companies act as facilitators but they don't want to do serious curation or customer support. For example, ever tried to call Amazon or eBay to discuss a problem or report possible fraud? As far as I can tell, these companies don't provide phone support. Their attitude seems to be "Why bother? We're not really interested in doing these things, our customers don't demand it, and it would be way too costly."
- mav3rick 8y ago
  Amazon support is the best there is. They always go above and beyond to help someone.
- CamelCaseName 8y ago
  Amazon path: Customer Service > Contact Us > Call Customer Service > Something Else > Issue with Items from a 3rd Party Seller Or, Toll free: 1-888-280-4331
- masonic 8y ago
  they don't want to do serious curation But their fees are commensurate with them doing that role.
baybal2 8y ago
I find it funny that there are way, way more counterfeit stuff on Amazon than Alibaba, and despite of that it is Alibaba who is placed on the US "1000 notorious marketplaces list" and not Amazon

56 points by strict9 8y ago

Amazon admitting this is a business risk to shareholders is a great start but what I really want to see is a commitment to solving this problem. I can't help but be a bit pessimistic here and think that Amazon will do the bare minimum to protect their business. I was talking with a friend about Amazon the other day and anecdata is the customer experience is on the decline. Bad experiences with counterfeit products just compounds this problem.

pytyper2 8y ago
They can't solve it because in many cases you are not buying from amazon, you are buying from some rando merchant who posted an ad. Unless it is sold by amazon (not FBA or seller fulfilled) the relationship is no different than Buy It Now on Ebay. The actual risk is that people realize this and generally stop thinking of amazon as premium and realize it is pretty much another eBay style marketplace in disguise. The only possible solution is to run a process like StockX, but good luck training seasonal workers to spot some fake Yeezy sneakers... I guess they could buy StockX and outsource authentication of Luxury brand items that are not received from an official supply chain. I'm with you though, it needs to be solved, not just accounted for.
- uponcoffee 8y ago
  You don't need to train floor employees to spot counter fits, they just need to fix ratings to enable customers to make an informed choice. Counterfeit items work because counterfeit ratings keep them promoted in search results. Ebay works on a trust system, feedback is good/bad/neutral with a short dialogue and rolling seller ratings over a few timescales to help users guage product/seller quality. It works reasonably well. With Amazon you need to use third party tools to filter out the bots get a similar level of information, but you have to manually wade through a bunch of bad results.
  - CaptainZapp 8y ago
    How about buying either at the stores of branded goods manufacturers, or their certified outlets? Buying very expensive brands from Amazon is an invite to get a fake since no reputable brand (in the very expensive segment) will use Amazon as a retail channel. Even with lesser brands you run a super high risk of not getting the real thing. This story[1] is a reminder of what you're likely wind up with. Upon reading it I was just shaking my head and thinking "I could have told you so" [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/01/counterfeit-canada-goose-amazon/581041/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/01/count...
    - pytyper2 8y ago
      This is what I do, my opinions on e-commerce have changed over the years, I source following this priority: locally boutique or small stores, boutique or brand websites, local big box, online big box.
  - pytyper2 8y ago
    This seems like a more difficult problem, is there any marketplace that has solved the fake review problem? Spotting a fake sneaker is probably 99% accurate for a trained buyer, but spotting a fake review, not so much.
- amscanne 8y ago
  I was under the impression that all widgets are equal in Amazon's inventory and logistics system, so items from all FBA sellers and Amazon itself are intermixed. That is, buying from Amazon or a specific seller is no guarantee of a genuine product. Is this not the case? (This is worse than eBay, since you can't even choose your supplier by reputation.)
  - hnnh44 8y ago
    This isn't correct. There are "comingled" and "non comingled". Sellers pay more for the latter. Also, there's FBA and non-FBA. Better distinction on the buyer side would go a long way Of course, Amazon doesn't want any 1 seller becoming too poplular because that means they can stop competing on price.

bdibs 8y ago

It also appears they’re making some changes as well. I sell on FBA and recently had to create new listings that force the Amazon barcode instead of the manufacturers, which is where the commingling happens. I’m sure this isn’t all products (large brands are probably still using manufacturing barcodes), but it should help nonetheless.

chmaynard 8y ago

Companies like Amazon have created huge, useful online marketplaces for new and used products and services. The companies act as facilitators but they don't want to do serious curation or customer support. For example, ever tried to call Amazon or eBay to discuss a problem or report possible fraud? As far as I can tell, these companies don't provide phone support. Their attitude seems to be "Why bother? We're not really interested in doing these things, our customers don't demand it, and it would be way too costly."

mav3rick 8y ago
Amazon support is the best there is. They always go above and beyond to help someone.
CamelCaseName 8y ago
Amazon path: Customer Service > Contact Us > Call Customer Service > Something Else > Issue with Items from a 3rd Party Seller Or, Toll free: 1-888-280-4331
masonic 8y ago
they don't want to do serious curation But their fees are commensurate with them doing that role.

baybal2 8y ago

I find it funny that there are way, way more counterfeit stuff on Amazon than Alibaba, and despite of that it is Alibaba who is placed on the US "1000 notorious marketplaces list" and not Amazon