5 ms·

Hacked kinect Brings Futuristic User Interface

54 points by dkd903 16y ago

pilif 16y ago
What really pains me is that Microsofts response to all this innovation and geek love is to threaten people working on the drivers to make this possible with jail. I understand that they want to protect their investment. Especially if the are selling the hardware at a loss (I don't know whether they are), but a bit more open mindedness could be so helpful in getting geeks excited (and maybe selling more consoles in the long run) Look at the Wiimote. Did nintendo lose anything as the community began doing crazy stuff with it? I know of at least one case where the Wiimotes hacker-friendliness sold a console.
- nlogn 16y ago
  Isn't the obvious solution for Microsoft in the case of the Kinect to just up the price so they aren't selling it at a loss (assuming they are)? Hobbyists will still buy them and do innovative things with the device, especially if there appears to be less risk of C&Ds down the line.
  - Natsu 16y ago
    They may also have had plans to do some of these things themselves and the projects people are publishing could count as prior art, preventing them from patenting various things. This is pure speculation and I have no information to support it, though. It's kind of sad that they appear to be hostile to the notion of people hacking this nifty device into something even greater. I don't think they're selling it at a loss, but who knows? Apparently, they've been shoveling profits around to hide weakness in the Windows division, or at least InformationWeek thinks so. Source: http://www.informationweek.com/news/storage/reviews/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=228200850&itc=ref-true http://www.informationweek.com/news/storage/reviews/showArti...
  - josephcooney 16y ago
    According to the teardown I read today the parts cost of a kinect is $56, so it is safe ta assume they're not losing money on it.
- josephcooney 16y ago
  Can you provide examples that mention jail?
  - konad 16y ago
    Not the word jail but the threat is in plain sight http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-20021836-52.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-20021836-52.html "Microsoft does not condone the modification of its products," a company spokesperson told CNET. "With Kinect, Microsoft built in numerous hardware and software safeguards designed to reduce the chances of product tampering. Microsoft will continue to make advances in these types of safeguards and work closely with law enforcement and product safety groups to keep Kinect tamper-resistant."
    - dazzawazza 16y ago
      In part Microsoft HAS to release a statement saying don't do. So that later it can claim it is not responsible for something and it did everything in it's power to stop these activities. You can imagine someone somehow coming to harm and Microsoft getting sued because it a massive cash cow. Of course this is being generous to MS and given past form I'm sure they will not hesitate to protect themselves from positive publicity and the possibility that people may consider the company to be cool and innovative ;)
      - konad 16y ago
        AFAIK you can't weasel your way out of product liability like that.
dkokelley 16y ago
As far as Microsoft is concerned, 3rd party drivers and applications are the best thing to happen to the Kinect. Remember the original iPhone pre-app store? Jailbroken apps paved the way for what is now the billion dollar iOS app industry. I don't think Microsoft is planning on running their own app store (at least not with the Kinect), but like with the iPhone, users "voiding the warranty" so to speak may usher in a wave of innovation in terms of accessibility and user interaction beyond the Xbox. Microsoft should know that watching what people do with the Kinect outside of the (artificial) design limits is one of the best (and least expensive) form of product-market research. Here's an idea for use that Microsoft could create and profit from: Kinect as a remote control for a media center PC. No more losing the remote or replacing batteries. That one's free, Microsoft.
- lukifer 16y ago
  Hopefully they see this as a business opportunity, and start selling official drivers for use with PCs. But given their track record and internal politics, somehow I doubt it. (Even if they do, you know it's going to be Windows-only).
  - dkokelley 16y ago
    It will certainly be Windows only. I don't even know if Microsoft will open it up to 3rd party developers, but internally they could reposition and expand the Kinect and develop in-house products. I'm hopeful for the media center remote control applications.
- piotrSikora 16y ago
  Best thing? Microsoft isn't making money on selling Kinect (or Xbox, for that matter), they are making money on selling games for Xbox. How can making Kinect work without Xbox (and even without Microsoft's OS) can be a good thing for them? If this would let to increase in Xbox sales then sure, but the thing works without Xbox now, so I don't see why anyone at Microsoft should be happy about it.
  - wccrawford 16y ago
ThomPete 16y ago
Sorry but that is not a futuristic interface. That is a current interface in need of a futuristic application.
burgerbrain 16y ago
"Minority Report" interfaces look really cool when demoed, but I have yet to see a solution to gorilla arm syndrome. No matter how good the technology gets, nobody is going to want to wave their arms around in front of them for anything even close to "an extended amount of time". This technology has a lot of potential, but this particular application is a dead end.
- lukifer 16y ago
  Another commenter called out a use I hadn't thought of: operating media center PCs without a mouse or remote. Since you only need brief interactions, the fatigue wouldn't a big deal.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    Of course, in order not to change the channel, you'll have to stand very still...
    - mrbad101 16y ago
      I'm not sure if you are joking here or not -- but, if you've played with the Kinect on a 360, you'd note that it can recognize your hands, and only when you hold your hands out for a set period of time (2-3 seconds, cannot recall exactly) the Kinect wakes up and begins to allow you to input controls.
      - rbanffy 16y ago
        I was joking. I failed to locate the correct reference to the Hitchhikers Guide to The Galaxy, but I am sure there is a joke on gesture recognition somewhere in there.
  - emzo 16y ago
    Personally, I'd rather tell my media centre PC to change channel with a voice command than wave my hand at it. Seems more natural to me. I'm sure flicking through channels would be easy enough with some kind of motion commands, but navigating to specific channels, how would you do that? I guess you could have a specific gesture for each individual channel, but even then, it would me much easier to just say the name of a chennel. Another idea would be a specific gesture to go to the list of channels, which you could then scroll through and select, but this is still more work then voice commands. I'm not saying this technology sucks, I think it's fantastic, but it doesn't solve every UI problem.
rbanffy 16y ago
If Microsoft is losing money on every sale, the simplest solution to this is to stop selling it separate from an Xbox (feasible as soon as the original Kinect uptake approaches 100% of active game-purchasing consoles) or build it into a next-generation console. OTOH, Microsoft could just as well keep selling it. I bet the fraction of purchases that will end up in Linux boxes is tiny when compared to the part that goes to Xboxes and generate game sales.

54 points by dkd903 16y ago

pilif 16y ago

What really pains me is that Microsofts response to all this innovation and geek love is to threaten people working on the drivers to make this possible with jail. I understand that they want to protect their investment. Especially if the are selling the hardware at a loss (I don't know whether they are), but a bit more open mindedness could be so helpful in getting geeks excited (and maybe selling more consoles in the long run) Look at the Wiimote. Did nintendo lose anything as the community began doing crazy stuff with it? I know of at least one case where the Wiimotes hacker-friendliness sold a console.

nlogn 16y ago
Isn't the obvious solution for Microsoft in the case of the Kinect to just up the price so they aren't selling it at a loss (assuming they are)? Hobbyists will still buy them and do innovative things with the device, especially if there appears to be less risk of C&Ds down the line.
- Natsu 16y ago
  They may also have had plans to do some of these things themselves and the projects people are publishing could count as prior art, preventing them from patenting various things. This is pure speculation and I have no information to support it, though. It's kind of sad that they appear to be hostile to the notion of people hacking this nifty device into something even greater. I don't think they're selling it at a loss, but who knows? Apparently, they've been shoveling profits around to hide weakness in the Windows division, or at least InformationWeek thinks so. Source: http://www.informationweek.com/news/storage/reviews/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=228200850&itc=ref-true http://www.informationweek.com/news/storage/reviews/showArti...
- josephcooney 16y ago
  According to the teardown I read today the parts cost of a kinect is $56, so it is safe ta assume they're not losing money on it.
josephcooney 16y ago
Can you provide examples that mention jail?
- konad 16y ago
  Not the word jail but the threat is in plain sight http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-20021836-52.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-20021836-52.html "Microsoft does not condone the modification of its products," a company spokesperson told CNET. "With Kinect, Microsoft built in numerous hardware and software safeguards designed to reduce the chances of product tampering. Microsoft will continue to make advances in these types of safeguards and work closely with law enforcement and product safety groups to keep Kinect tamper-resistant."
  - dazzawazza 16y ago
    In part Microsoft HAS to release a statement saying don't do. So that later it can claim it is not responsible for something and it did everything in it's power to stop these activities. You can imagine someone somehow coming to harm and Microsoft getting sued because it a massive cash cow. Of course this is being generous to MS and given past form I'm sure they will not hesitate to protect themselves from positive publicity and the possibility that people may consider the company to be cool and innovative ;)
    - konad 16y ago
      AFAIK you can't weasel your way out of product liability like that.

dkokelley 16y ago

As far as Microsoft is concerned, 3rd party drivers and applications are the best thing to happen to the Kinect. Remember the original iPhone pre-app store? Jailbroken apps paved the way for what is now the billion dollar iOS app industry. I don't think Microsoft is planning on running their own app store (at least not with the Kinect), but like with the iPhone, users "voiding the warranty" so to speak may usher in a wave of innovation in terms of accessibility and user interaction beyond the Xbox. Microsoft should know that watching what people do with the Kinect outside of the (artificial) design limits is one of the best (and least expensive) form of product-market research. Here's an idea for use that Microsoft could create and profit from: Kinect as a remote control for a media center PC. No more losing the remote or replacing batteries. That one's free, Microsoft.

lukifer 16y ago
Hopefully they see this as a business opportunity, and start selling official drivers for use with PCs. But given their track record and internal politics, somehow I doubt it. (Even if they do, you know it's going to be Windows-only).
- dkokelley 16y ago
  It will certainly be Windows only. I don't even know if Microsoft will open it up to 3rd party developers, but internally they could reposition and expand the Kinect and develop in-house products. I'm hopeful for the media center remote control applications.
piotrSikora 16y ago
Best thing? Microsoft isn't making money on selling Kinect (or Xbox, for that matter), they are making money on selling games for Xbox. How can making Kinect work without Xbox (and even without Microsoft's OS) can be a good thing for them? If this would let to increase in Xbox sales then sure, but the thing works without Xbox now, so I don't see why anyone at Microsoft should be happy about it.
- wccrawford 16y ago

ThomPete 16y ago

Sorry but that is not a futuristic interface. That is a current interface in need of a futuristic application.

burgerbrain 16y ago

"Minority Report" interfaces look really cool when demoed, but I have yet to see a solution to gorilla arm syndrome. No matter how good the technology gets, nobody is going to want to wave their arms around in front of them for anything even close to "an extended amount of time". This technology has a lot of potential, but this particular application is a dead end.

lukifer 16y ago
Another commenter called out a use I hadn't thought of: operating media center PCs without a mouse or remote. Since you only need brief interactions, the fatigue wouldn't a big deal.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  Of course, in order not to change the channel, you'll have to stand very still...
  - mrbad101 16y ago
    I'm not sure if you are joking here or not -- but, if you've played with the Kinect on a 360, you'd note that it can recognize your hands, and only when you hold your hands out for a set period of time (2-3 seconds, cannot recall exactly) the Kinect wakes up and begins to allow you to input controls.
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      I was joking. I failed to locate the correct reference to the Hitchhikers Guide to The Galaxy, but I am sure there is a joke on gesture recognition somewhere in there.
- emzo 16y ago
  Personally, I'd rather tell my media centre PC to change channel with a voice command than wave my hand at it. Seems more natural to me. I'm sure flicking through channels would be easy enough with some kind of motion commands, but navigating to specific channels, how would you do that? I guess you could have a specific gesture for each individual channel, but even then, it would me much easier to just say the name of a chennel. Another idea would be a specific gesture to go to the list of channels, which you could then scroll through and select, but this is still more work then voice commands. I'm not saying this technology sucks, I think it's fantastic, but it doesn't solve every UI problem.

rbanffy 16y ago

If Microsoft is losing money on every sale, the simplest solution to this is to stop selling it separate from an Xbox (feasible as soon as the original Kinect uptake approaches 100% of active game-purchasing consoles) or build it into a next-generation console. OTOH, Microsoft could just as well keep selling it. I bet the fraction of purchases that will end up in Linux boxes is tiny when compared to the part that goes to Xboxes and generate game sales.