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This has happened countless times: A very ill received proposal meets sufficient public resistance to be publicly labeled as "defeated", only to resurface in an

by lbj 8y ago

This has happened countless times: A very ill received proposal meets sufficient public resistance to be publicly labeled as "defeated", only to resurface in an almost identical version months/years later. It seems obvious that strong powers playing the long game are lobbying to see this passed.

afpx 8y ago
This seems to have become standard operating procedure in the US, and it really kills peoples' trust of our legislative system. It's saddening to hear that the EU is not immune to it either.
- lbj 8y ago
  I would say it's standard in most western countries.
  - jandrese 8y ago
    Eastern countries too, unless they're too totalitarian to hold votes.
    - chme 8y ago
      That is probably a property of representative democracy.
      - jandrese 8y ago
        It's a property of all systems. Some asshole is going to try to abuse it to enrich themselves. That's why checks on power are so important.
- Mirioron 8y ago
  The EU has been pulling this stuff for a while. Back when Ireland had a referendum whether they should ratify the Lisbon treaty the Irish voted against it. A year later they were asked to have another referendum with some concessions given by the EU. Referendums don't really work if one side can just ask to have another one.
tossaccount123 8y ago
That's how it works, rights are stripped away slowly over time and power is concentrated in government hands. It's like boiling a frog, if you try to do it all at once people will revolt, instead they just do it insidiously. The US was created over a 3% tea tax, didn't have any income tax until 1913. Now many people pay close to 50% of their income in tax between state and federal, plus sales tax, gas tax, property tax, capital gains tax, inheritance tax, etc "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever" - Orwell
porpoisely 8y ago
Just a legal version of "keep voting until we get the vote we want". But it shouldn't be shocking that the elites get what they want. The EU was created by the elites for the benefit of the elites, not ordinary europeans. The elites of every major region seem intent on controlling and censoring the internet ( EU, China, Russia, US, etc ). The question is towards what end? It certainly isn't for the benefit of their own people.
- simonebrunozzi 8y ago
  > The EU was created by the elites for the benefit of the elites, not ordinary europeans. Citation needed.
  - porpoisely 8y ago
    I assumed it was self evident. All major organizations ( especially international organizations ) are built by the elites. Who else has the time, money, influence and knowledge to create international organizations? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_European_Union
    - matt4077 8y ago
      That’s sort of a truism, then. Because obviously building a large international organization is sufficient to consider you part of the elite.
  - robdachshund 8y ago
    It's really odd to me that everyone on HN seems to blindly trust massive corporations and governments. It's not hard to read between the lines.

by lbj 8y ago

afpx 8y ago

This seems to have become standard operating procedure in the US, and it really kills peoples' trust of our legislative system. It's saddening to hear that the EU is not immune to it either.

lbj 8y ago
I would say it's standard in most western countries.
- jandrese 8y ago
  Eastern countries too, unless they're too totalitarian to hold votes.
  - chme 8y ago
    That is probably a property of representative democracy.
    - jandrese 8y ago
      It's a property of all systems. Some asshole is going to try to abuse it to enrich themselves. That's why checks on power are so important.
Mirioron 8y ago
The EU has been pulling this stuff for a while. Back when Ireland had a referendum whether they should ratify the Lisbon treaty the Irish voted against it. A year later they were asked to have another referendum with some concessions given by the EU. Referendums don't really work if one side can just ask to have another one.

tossaccount123 8y ago

That's how it works, rights are stripped away slowly over time and power is concentrated in government hands. It's like boiling a frog, if you try to do it all at once people will revolt, instead they just do it insidiously. The US was created over a 3% tea tax, didn't have any income tax until 1913. Now many people pay close to 50% of their income in tax between state and federal, plus sales tax, gas tax, property tax, capital gains tax, inheritance tax, etc "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever" - Orwell

porpoisely 8y ago

Just a legal version of "keep voting until we get the vote we want". But it shouldn't be shocking that the elites get what they want. The EU was created by the elites for the benefit of the elites, not ordinary europeans. The elites of every major region seem intent on controlling and censoring the internet ( EU, China, Russia, US, etc ). The question is towards what end? It certainly isn't for the benefit of their own people.

simonebrunozzi 8y ago
> The EU was created by the elites for the benefit of the elites, not ordinary europeans. Citation needed.
- porpoisely 8y ago
  I assumed it was self evident. All major organizations ( especially international organizations ) are built by the elites. Who else has the time, money, influence and knowledge to create international organizations? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_European_Union
  - matt4077 8y ago
    That’s sort of a truism, then. Because obviously building a large international organization is sufficient to consider you part of the elite.
- robdachshund 8y ago
  It's really odd to me that everyone on HN seems to blindly trust massive corporations and governments. It's not hard to read between the lines.