5 ms·

It really is kind of insane that we have a law that criminalizes possession of a plant you can literally pick out of the grass in your lawn in some places.

dTal 8y ago
Nitpick: fungus :) The deeper insanity is that physically speaking, magic mushrooms are one of the safest known drugs to man. Nobody's dying from magic mushroom overdose, flying into violent rages, dancing until they pass out from dehydration, or robbing stores to pay for their next mushroom fix. Along any metric you'd care to name, psilocybin is a much safer drug than, say, alcohol.
- saiya-jin 8y ago
  It can trigger deep psychosis which can take people years to come back from, or even permanently 'break' personalities and make people worse human beings. Imagine having very dark bad trip for the first time, on high dose, with nobody around to help. My opinion is that those people could end up there via different ways (alcoholism, mental shocks like car crash or other mental traumas), but this is definitely one way. It is extremely powerful substance and can take you very far from common reality, not something most folks are prepared for. I know I was not, and having every single aspect that makes me me taken away, both on physical and personality level was by huge margin the most intense experience of my life. I believe it should be legal (maybe with some huge warnings/education about potential consequences), but from all I've heard LSD is just synthetic variant of the same - why would that be illegal then? If that is OK, what about mescaline, that's also just a plant? Ayahusca? Cocaine is also a plant extract, and so is heroine (with some chemistry on top of that, but coca itself has quite an effect on its own). A bit slippery slope...
  - naasking 8y ago
    > It can trigger deep psychosis which can take people years to come back from, or even permanently 'break' personalities and make people worse human beings. No link found between psychedelics and psychosis: https://www.nature.com/news/no-link-found-between-psychedelics-and-psychosis-1.16968 https://www.nature.com/news/no-link-found-between-psychedeli...
    - deevolution 8y ago
      Happened to a family member. Very upsetting and unfortunate.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - felix_nagaand 8y ago
        Could be related to other drug use. Most trippers experiment with other stuff. Coke, alcohol, math and marijuana all can trigger psychosis.
        wwasilev 8y ago
        Don't do math! Math will change you! ;)
      - naasking 8y ago
        I'm sorry to hear that, but you honestly have no idea if the psychedelic actually caused it. Any number of environmental factors could be at play. No doubt that they will cause issues in some folks, but as the link I provided shows, there's no reason to think they will cause it at any greater rate than other factors we encounter daily.
- z_open 8y ago
  It has the capability of changing you mentally permanently. It can change it for the better, or for worse, and it doesn't take that many times. It takes longer for alcohol to change you. Physically, you're absolutely right though.
- vinceguidry 8y ago
  It's impossible to make money with a plant anybody can grow, so they just criminalize it because it won't ever become a tax base.
  - gotocake 8y ago
    By that logic willow bark should be illegal. There might be more at play than you assume.
    - vinceguidry 8y ago
      No one wants willow bark, they want aspirin. You can't grow aspirin in your back yard, you need to do chemistry to turn the bark into the medicine. Plus willow is a tree and you can't grow it everywhere. Cannabis approaches that point where if it were any easier to grow, everyone would. But it's not quite there yet. Water requires organization but is plentiful enough to be mostly free for typical amounts. Companies that do the organization are heavily regulated and the people running it aren't getting rich.
      - gotocake 8y ago
        No one wants willow bark, they want aspirin. You can't grow aspirin in your back yard, you need to do chemistry to turn the bark into the medicine. Plus willow is a tree and you can't grow it everywhere. Nobody wants willow bark (not totally accurate, but let’s accept it) because aspirin was formulated. That’s not a defense of your argument, it’s the hole in it. Why do you think that mushrooms, unlike willow trees and a thousand other natural sources for what would eventually be synthesized, won’t be made into a superior form by a drug company? Legalizing one opens up opportunities for the latter, which then displaces the old. Why do you think mushrooms are somehow the exception?
        vinceguidry 8y ago
        You are trying to argue on the basis of truth. I can accept the truth of your statements, despite it being irrelevant to the politicians who ultimately drive regulation. The politicians do not see truth, they only see their next re-election campaign. And since there's more political capital to be reaped, right now, from being anti-drug, then there is in supporting a new drug whose industry hasn't been built out yet, we won't be seeing psilocybin decriminalization, much less legalization anytime soon. The same mechanics are at work in the current push for cannabis decriminalization and ultimate legalization. It takes the building of a tax base in order to get politicians to take the cause of cannabis seriously. Political economics neatly explain everything about the world we live in. We already have plenty of regulated drugs which are used recreationally. Adderall, narcotics. You're saying psilocybin isn't special compared to other drugs. You'd be right, except for the fact that there isn't already an industry that exists to cultivate and bring psilocybin mushrooms to people, simply because anyone can go out and pick them themselves. There already was a cannabis industry before legalization, albeit an illegal one. Where is the illegal mushroom business? It's just random people doing it for side profits. Nobody's getting rich off of it. Because nobody can get rich off of it, there isn't a political economic reason for legalizing it. There might be a public-interest reason, but that means the public has to actually generate more political capital than the anti-drug crowd generates from saying it's horrible in order to get it legalized. I'm not saying nobody can make money off of psilocybin or that research can't be done. I'm saying that because nobody is already getting rich off of it, its political heft is forever going to be limited to 'mere' public interest. Cannabis required a public-interest campaign before it could be regulated in one state, because the existing black-market industry had a vested interest in cannabis remaining illegal. Once the regulation enabled taxes, now we're seeing more regulation and legalization.
- systematical 8y ago
  https://deadspin.com/mushroom-tea-murder-man-removes-friends-still-beating-5549389 https://deadspin.com/mushroom-tea-murder-man-removes-friends...
- eqdw 8y ago
  I'm a strong proponent of hallucinogens, and in general agree with you, but two years ago a close friend of mine did mushrooms, and it generated profound, negative, permanent changes to his mental health. IDK if they caused it, or if it was always lurking there and they triggered it, or what, but this has certainly caused me to think twice on my original position of "they're fine, they're safe, it's all good" I think I still agree that they're certainly safer than most other drugs

dTal 8y ago

Nitpick: fungus :) The deeper insanity is that physically speaking, magic mushrooms are one of the safest known drugs to man. Nobody's dying from magic mushroom overdose, flying into violent rages, dancing until they pass out from dehydration, or robbing stores to pay for their next mushroom fix. Along any metric you'd care to name, psilocybin is a much safer drug than, say, alcohol.

saiya-jin 8y ago
It can trigger deep psychosis which can take people years to come back from, or even permanently 'break' personalities and make people worse human beings. Imagine having very dark bad trip for the first time, on high dose, with nobody around to help. My opinion is that those people could end up there via different ways (alcoholism, mental shocks like car crash or other mental traumas), but this is definitely one way. It is extremely powerful substance and can take you very far from common reality, not something most folks are prepared for. I know I was not, and having every single aspect that makes me me taken away, both on physical and personality level was by huge margin the most intense experience of my life. I believe it should be legal (maybe with some huge warnings/education about potential consequences), but from all I've heard LSD is just synthetic variant of the same - why would that be illegal then? If that is OK, what about mescaline, that's also just a plant? Ayahusca? Cocaine is also a plant extract, and so is heroine (with some chemistry on top of that, but coca itself has quite an effect on its own). A bit slippery slope...
- naasking 8y ago
  > It can trigger deep psychosis which can take people years to come back from, or even permanently 'break' personalities and make people worse human beings. No link found between psychedelics and psychosis: https://www.nature.com/news/no-link-found-between-psychedelics-and-psychosis-1.16968 https://www.nature.com/news/no-link-found-between-psychedeli...
  - deevolution 8y ago
    Happened to a family member. Very upsetting and unfortunate.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - felix_nagaand 8y ago
      Could be related to other drug use. Most trippers experiment with other stuff. Coke, alcohol, math and marijuana all can trigger psychosis.
      - wwasilev 8y ago
        Don't do math! Math will change you! ;)
    - naasking 8y ago
      I'm sorry to hear that, but you honestly have no idea if the psychedelic actually caused it. Any number of environmental factors could be at play. No doubt that they will cause issues in some folks, but as the link I provided shows, there's no reason to think they will cause it at any greater rate than other factors we encounter daily.
z_open 8y ago
It has the capability of changing you mentally permanently. It can change it for the better, or for worse, and it doesn't take that many times. It takes longer for alcohol to change you. Physically, you're absolutely right though.
vinceguidry 8y ago
It's impossible to make money with a plant anybody can grow, so they just criminalize it because it won't ever become a tax base.
- gotocake 8y ago
  By that logic willow bark should be illegal. There might be more at play than you assume.
  - vinceguidry 8y ago
    No one wants willow bark, they want aspirin. You can't grow aspirin in your back yard, you need to do chemistry to turn the bark into the medicine. Plus willow is a tree and you can't grow it everywhere. Cannabis approaches that point where if it were any easier to grow, everyone would. But it's not quite there yet. Water requires organization but is plentiful enough to be mostly free for typical amounts. Companies that do the organization are heavily regulated and the people running it aren't getting rich.
    - gotocake 8y ago
      No one wants willow bark, they want aspirin. You can't grow aspirin in your back yard, you need to do chemistry to turn the bark into the medicine. Plus willow is a tree and you can't grow it everywhere. Nobody wants willow bark (not totally accurate, but let’s accept it) because aspirin was formulated. That’s not a defense of your argument, it’s the hole in it. Why do you think that mushrooms, unlike willow trees and a thousand other natural sources for what would eventually be synthesized, won’t be made into a superior form by a drug company? Legalizing one opens up opportunities for the latter, which then displaces the old. Why do you think mushrooms are somehow the exception?
      - vinceguidry 8y ago
        You are trying to argue on the basis of truth. I can accept the truth of your statements, despite it being irrelevant to the politicians who ultimately drive regulation. The politicians do not see truth, they only see their next re-election campaign. And since there's more political capital to be reaped, right now, from being anti-drug, then there is in supporting a new drug whose industry hasn't been built out yet, we won't be seeing psilocybin decriminalization, much less legalization anytime soon. The same mechanics are at work in the current push for cannabis decriminalization and ultimate legalization. It takes the building of a tax base in order to get politicians to take the cause of cannabis seriously. Political economics neatly explain everything about the world we live in. We already have plenty of regulated drugs which are used recreationally. Adderall, narcotics. You're saying psilocybin isn't special compared to other drugs. You'd be right, except for the fact that there isn't already an industry that exists to cultivate and bring psilocybin mushrooms to people, simply because anyone can go out and pick them themselves. There already was a cannabis industry before legalization, albeit an illegal one. Where is the illegal mushroom business? It's just random people doing it for side profits. Nobody's getting rich off of it. Because nobody can get rich off of it, there isn't a political economic reason for legalizing it. There might be a public-interest reason, but that means the public has to actually generate more political capital than the anti-drug crowd generates from saying it's horrible in order to get it legalized. I'm not saying nobody can make money off of psilocybin or that research can't be done. I'm saying that because nobody is already getting rich off of it, its political heft is forever going to be limited to 'mere' public interest. Cannabis required a public-interest campaign before it could be regulated in one state, because the existing black-market industry had a vested interest in cannabis remaining illegal. Once the regulation enabled taxes, now we're seeing more regulation and legalization.
systematical 8y ago
https://deadspin.com/mushroom-tea-murder-man-removes-friends-still-beating-5549389 https://deadspin.com/mushroom-tea-murder-man-removes-friends...
eqdw 8y ago
I'm a strong proponent of hallucinogens, and in general agree with you, but two years ago a close friend of mine did mushrooms, and it generated profound, negative, permanent changes to his mental health. IDK if they caused it, or if it was always lurking there and they triggered it, or what, but this has certainly caused me to think twice on my original position of "they're fine, they're safe, it's all good" I think I still agree that they're certainly safer than most other drugs