7 ms·

I never understood the whole: we are throwing you in jail to protect you from yourself approach with the war on drugs. Decriminalize it!

justtopost 8y ago
Legalize it. Please. 'Decriminalization' is a spin word for things still very much illegal.
- Andrex 8y ago
  Not really, it confers some pretty specific policy changes (making possession legal, as well as retroactively expunging records, is one part of decriminalization.)
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- folkrav 8y ago
  Decriminalization is akin to a parking ticket, it's still illegal, but is not a criminal offense. It literally is what the word means, not a "spin word". Both things serve very different purposes.
  - saiya-jin 8y ago
    You still support crime syndicate with your money. You still have to deal with shady characters in the dark streets. You still have no clue what you are buying, the potency, what is it mixed with. When you travel, you have no clue where to go. Decriminalization is a half-assed step from horrible situation, but its still a bad and unfair situation. We can do better once we recognize that some substance is not the end of the world (like weed recently). Personal example - a friend brought from US a vaporizer with weed oil inside. Its much less health-damaging compared to usual smoking - even compared to plant vaporizers, the potency and effect is predictable, you know what to expect. This is how things improve when market is legal, in just couple of years. And this product is illegal everywhere else, including Amsterdam...
    - folkrav 8y ago
      Portugal decriminalized possession, sale is still illegal. Overall usage dropped down. Decriminalization doesn't serve the same objectives as legalization. Pretty sure outright legalizing meth wouldn't be such a great idea. Legalization is not the solution to everything either. Since weed has been legalized around here (Canada) a couple of big cities moved to literally ban smoking it everywhere. Current Quebec government is also pushing to ban smoking it outside province wide. They also let landlords ban marijuana use property wide. So basically, in these cities (and if the current Quebec government gets its way, which it definitely might considering its a majority government), marijuana is now legal to own, but renters now can't legally smoke anywhere.
ataturk 8y ago
There was a fair bit of teetotaling going on in the late 1800s, but I think they probably just got sick and tired of high assholes running all over, dangerously operating heavy machinery, crashing their carts, and falling off their horses. Oh, and a father who is drunk/stoned all the time isn't much good to a family. We're going to re-learn all those lessons all over again.
- Nursie 8y ago
  > Oh, and a father who is drunk/stoned all the time isn't much good to a family. Yes, he's terrible. Putting him in jail, and destroying any possibility of him getting a decent job, forever, hardly seems a constructive way forwards there though does it?
  - _Schizotypy 8y ago
    not to mention drunk fathers still exist, as they did during the prohibition of alcohol. stoned fathers still exist, during the current prohibition.
- crankylinuxuser 8y ago
  I vouched for your comment not because I agree with it, but I vehemently disagree. I also think your viewpoint is pervasive in more conservative circles. We saw what happened in the Prohibition. When alcohol was criminalized, gang violence spiked, production was accidentally mixed with ethyl -and- methyl, tax revenues went down, and we as a populace was generally unsafer after than before. There were even cases where the US govt poisoned rumrunners' stocks to kill drinkers - they were doing something illegal, so US officials deemed it OK to kill people. It was bad enough that Congress and the president did another constitutional change to remove the ban. With cannabis, it is mostly harmless and makes you feel weird. But as noted by Nixon and other republicans, banning and punishing cannabis users was being equated with targeting hippies and blacks. And of course, cannabis usage completely ignores many health positive effects like prevention of nausea, glaucoma, and many others. It's not a cure-all, but the downsides are very very limited. Just compare this to say, the Sacklers' pushing of Oxycontin. I don't think "near harmless" can be used to discuss that. When we look at harm minimization, making drugs illegal only pushes them underground, deprives tax dollars, increases violent groups to maintain illicit trade, and further reduces public safety. So yeah, you do have to look at the whole issue rather than "My uncle Jimbob sits around gettin' high". Whereas alcoholism and alcohol overdose is a significant issue which can kill people.. Yet we had that discussion a century ago, and we learned our lesson then.
lightbyte 8y ago
It's easy to understand when you realize they aren't throwing you in jail to protect you, it's to make money off of you.
- bmurphy1976 8y ago
  And oppress political opposition as well as other undesirables (aka blatant racism).
duxup 8y ago
I feel like there is a bit of a reason to do that for things like say ... crack. Pot is one thing but the ultra addictive stuff, I just don't see making that legal a good idea. Not all drugs are equal in my mind in that sense. Granted I've no issue for being measured with how to handle folks who are caught with it.
- laumars 8y ago
  Decriminalisation isn’t the same as legalisation. The former means you won’t get a criminal record for it but it’s still illegal.
- folkrav 8y ago
  Meanwhile, Portugal has decriminalized possession in small quantities for all drugs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_liberalization#Portugal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_liberalization#Portugal) with great results. Criminalizing addicts is not helping anyone. Throwing addicts into jail doesn't solve their addiction problem, and distributors are still out there.
chasd00 8y ago
more like we're throwing you in jail to protect the rest of us from your addiction. Anyone who has ever crossed paths with an addict short on money to feed their addiction knows this all too well. Also, finding syringes on the sidewalk where kids play isn't good either.
- spicymaki 8y ago
  The syringes at the park are a direct result of drug policy. Perhaps the person had social/mental problems before becoming an addict. Why not divert resources to making life more livable for more people rather than cages that do not fix anything?
- eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago
  Right, just throw everyone in jail. The true American way.
- woah 8y ago
  Just look at SF. Junkies running wild, injecting marijuana oil procured from the many legal “dispensaries”.
- globe1337 8y ago
  No one on mushrooms fits this delusional strawman dude.
- dwaltrip 8y ago
  I hope you realize that psilocybin mushrooms are not physiologically addictive and don't involve any needles.

justtopost 8y ago

Legalize it. Please. 'Decriminalization' is a spin word for things still very much illegal.

Andrex 8y ago
Not really, it confers some pretty specific policy changes (making possession legal, as well as retroactively expunging records, is one part of decriminalization.)
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
folkrav 8y ago
Decriminalization is akin to a parking ticket, it's still illegal, but is not a criminal offense. It literally is what the word means, not a "spin word". Both things serve very different purposes.
- saiya-jin 8y ago
  You still support crime syndicate with your money. You still have to deal with shady characters in the dark streets. You still have no clue what you are buying, the potency, what is it mixed with. When you travel, you have no clue where to go. Decriminalization is a half-assed step from horrible situation, but its still a bad and unfair situation. We can do better once we recognize that some substance is not the end of the world (like weed recently). Personal example - a friend brought from US a vaporizer with weed oil inside. Its much less health-damaging compared to usual smoking - even compared to plant vaporizers, the potency and effect is predictable, you know what to expect. This is how things improve when market is legal, in just couple of years. And this product is illegal everywhere else, including Amsterdam...
  - folkrav 8y ago
    Portugal decriminalized possession, sale is still illegal. Overall usage dropped down. Decriminalization doesn't serve the same objectives as legalization. Pretty sure outright legalizing meth wouldn't be such a great idea. Legalization is not the solution to everything either. Since weed has been legalized around here (Canada) a couple of big cities moved to literally ban smoking it everywhere. Current Quebec government is also pushing to ban smoking it outside province wide. They also let landlords ban marijuana use property wide. So basically, in these cities (and if the current Quebec government gets its way, which it definitely might considering its a majority government), marijuana is now legal to own, but renters now can't legally smoke anywhere.

ataturk 8y ago

There was a fair bit of teetotaling going on in the late 1800s, but I think they probably just got sick and tired of high assholes running all over, dangerously operating heavy machinery, crashing their carts, and falling off their horses. Oh, and a father who is drunk/stoned all the time isn't much good to a family. We're going to re-learn all those lessons all over again.

Nursie 8y ago
> Oh, and a father who is drunk/stoned all the time isn't much good to a family. Yes, he's terrible. Putting him in jail, and destroying any possibility of him getting a decent job, forever, hardly seems a constructive way forwards there though does it?
- _Schizotypy 8y ago
  not to mention drunk fathers still exist, as they did during the prohibition of alcohol. stoned fathers still exist, during the current prohibition.
crankylinuxuser 8y ago
I vouched for your comment not because I agree with it, but I vehemently disagree. I also think your viewpoint is pervasive in more conservative circles. We saw what happened in the Prohibition. When alcohol was criminalized, gang violence spiked, production was accidentally mixed with ethyl -and- methyl, tax revenues went down, and we as a populace was generally unsafer after than before. There were even cases where the US govt poisoned rumrunners' stocks to kill drinkers - they were doing something illegal, so US officials deemed it OK to kill people. It was bad enough that Congress and the president did another constitutional change to remove the ban. With cannabis, it is mostly harmless and makes you feel weird. But as noted by Nixon and other republicans, banning and punishing cannabis users was being equated with targeting hippies and blacks. And of course, cannabis usage completely ignores many health positive effects like prevention of nausea, glaucoma, and many others. It's not a cure-all, but the downsides are very very limited. Just compare this to say, the Sacklers' pushing of Oxycontin. I don't think "near harmless" can be used to discuss that. When we look at harm minimization, making drugs illegal only pushes them underground, deprives tax dollars, increases violent groups to maintain illicit trade, and further reduces public safety. So yeah, you do have to look at the whole issue rather than "My uncle Jimbob sits around gettin' high". Whereas alcoholism and alcohol overdose is a significant issue which can kill people.. Yet we had that discussion a century ago, and we learned our lesson then.

lightbyte 8y ago

It's easy to understand when you realize they aren't throwing you in jail to protect you, it's to make money off of you.

bmurphy1976 8y ago
And oppress political opposition as well as other undesirables (aka blatant racism).

duxup 8y ago

I feel like there is a bit of a reason to do that for things like say ... crack. Pot is one thing but the ultra addictive stuff, I just don't see making that legal a good idea. Not all drugs are equal in my mind in that sense. Granted I've no issue for being measured with how to handle folks who are caught with it.

laumars 8y ago
Decriminalisation isn’t the same as legalisation. The former means you won’t get a criminal record for it but it’s still illegal.
folkrav 8y ago
Meanwhile, Portugal has decriminalized possession in small quantities for all drugs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_liberalization#Portugal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_liberalization#Portugal) with great results. Criminalizing addicts is not helping anyone. Throwing addicts into jail doesn't solve their addiction problem, and distributors are still out there.

chasd00 8y ago

more like we're throwing you in jail to protect the rest of us from your addiction. Anyone who has ever crossed paths with an addict short on money to feed their addiction knows this all too well. Also, finding syringes on the sidewalk where kids play isn't good either.

spicymaki 8y ago
The syringes at the park are a direct result of drug policy. Perhaps the person had social/mental problems before becoming an addict. Why not divert resources to making life more livable for more people rather than cages that do not fix anything?
eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago
Right, just throw everyone in jail. The true American way.
woah 8y ago
Just look at SF. Junkies running wild, injecting marijuana oil procured from the many legal “dispensaries”.
globe1337 8y ago
No one on mushrooms fits this delusional strawman dude.
dwaltrip 8y ago
I hope you realize that psilocybin mushrooms are not physiologically addictive and don't involve any needles.