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French lawmakers do not decide. EU legislation passes through majority support. This is not a national issue so let's not try to make it one. > One of the re

French lawmakers do not decide. EU legislation passes through majority support. This is not a national issue so let's not try to make it one. > One of the reason we have had riots every single week for the last 3 months is because of their inability to make smart and pragmatic regulations Except that many rioters want a rollback on pragmatic measures for purely ideological reasons, of course.

StavrosK 8y ago
> French lawmakers do not decide. No, but they influence enough that they highly correlate with the outcome.
ailideex 8y ago
> This is not a national issue so let's not try to make it one. Why not?
coldtea 8y ago
>EU legislation passes through majority support. Which is hugely influenced by top dog states and their behind the scenes talks.
Mirioron 8y ago
>EU legislation passes through majority support. Due to the way the EU is set up and the "EU parties" are set up, this basically means that France and Germany have a ridiculous amount of sway on the issue.
- entity345 8y ago
  Number of MEPs is proportional to population... That's called democracy.
  - Mirioron 8y ago
    And democracy is the tyranny of the majority. Also, the way EU parties are structured, you can't even really consider it in that sense. It's possible to divide MEPs from France and Germany between EU parties in a way that voting along party lines would always give a positive outcome for Germany and France. (If you don't get what I mean by this, then think about how gerrymandering allows for a minority to take control over the majority. You can do the same with EU parliamentary groups.)
    - entity345 8y ago
      Well if you have a better alternative to democracy we're keen to hear it... > It's possible to divide MEPs from France and Germany between EU parties in a way that voting along party lines would always give a positive outcome for Germany and France That's not how it works. The way it works is the same as in most countries: There are a number of MEPs per constituency and then the people vote to decide which party get those seats (proportionally to number of votes). This has nothing to do with gerrymandering. Your suggestion is plainly nonsensical.
      - explainplease 8y ago
        Well, for example, the U.S. federal government was designed to cope with that problem: the Senate represents the states equally, regardless of population, and the President is elected by the electoral college, limiting the ability of large population centers to overwhelm the rest of the country. It's not a perfect system, and there will never be one, because humans are humans. But these problems are not new, and people were dealing with them a long time ago. Did the design of the EU not take them into account?
        entity345 8y ago
        The US Senate and the Presidential election processes are certainly not things to try to copy... They can both lead to anti-democratic results. In fact the Presidential election process was originally designed purposely to avoid giving the people a direct and full say. That being said, the EU already has something similar... the member countries represented equally by their governments.
        AnimalMuppet 8y ago
        You asked for a better alternative to democracy. explainplease supplied one. You complain because it's anti-democratic. That seems somewhat unfair.
        explainplease 8y ago
  - gdfasfklshg4 8y ago
    To quote myself: > The EU parliament is not the main legislative body in the EU. That would be the Commission. Furthermore the Council has roughly equal power to the Parliament. > Both the Commission and the Council are nationally controlled by the individual member states rather than directly elected. Of course it is still democracy because each national government is elected democratically. Accountability is somewhat lacking though.
gdfasfklshg4 8y ago
The EU parliament is not the main legislative body in the EU. That would be the Commission. Furthermore the Council has roughly equal power to the Parliament. Both the Commission and the Council are nationally controlled by the individual member states rather than directly elected.

StavrosK 8y ago

> French lawmakers do not decide. No, but they influence enough that they highly correlate with the outcome.

ailideex 8y ago

> This is not a national issue so let's not try to make it one. Why not?

coldtea 8y ago

>EU legislation passes through majority support. Which is hugely influenced by top dog states and their behind the scenes talks.

Mirioron 8y ago

>EU legislation passes through majority support. Due to the way the EU is set up and the "EU parties" are set up, this basically means that France and Germany have a ridiculous amount of sway on the issue.

entity345 8y ago
Number of MEPs is proportional to population... That's called democracy.
- Mirioron 8y ago
  And democracy is the tyranny of the majority. Also, the way EU parties are structured, you can't even really consider it in that sense. It's possible to divide MEPs from France and Germany between EU parties in a way that voting along party lines would always give a positive outcome for Germany and France. (If you don't get what I mean by this, then think about how gerrymandering allows for a minority to take control over the majority. You can do the same with EU parliamentary groups.)
  - entity345 8y ago
    Well if you have a better alternative to democracy we're keen to hear it... > It's possible to divide MEPs from France and Germany between EU parties in a way that voting along party lines would always give a positive outcome for Germany and France That's not how it works. The way it works is the same as in most countries: There are a number of MEPs per constituency and then the people vote to decide which party get those seats (proportionally to number of votes). This has nothing to do with gerrymandering. Your suggestion is plainly nonsensical.
    - explainplease 8y ago
      Well, for example, the U.S. federal government was designed to cope with that problem: the Senate represents the states equally, regardless of population, and the President is elected by the electoral college, limiting the ability of large population centers to overwhelm the rest of the country. It's not a perfect system, and there will never be one, because humans are humans. But these problems are not new, and people were dealing with them a long time ago. Did the design of the EU not take them into account?
      - entity345 8y ago
        The US Senate and the Presidential election processes are certainly not things to try to copy... They can both lead to anti-democratic results. In fact the Presidential election process was originally designed purposely to avoid giving the people a direct and full say. That being said, the EU already has something similar... the member countries represented equally by their governments.
        AnimalMuppet 8y ago
        You asked for a better alternative to democracy. explainplease supplied one. You complain because it's anti-democratic. That seems somewhat unfair.
        explainplease 8y ago
- gdfasfklshg4 8y ago
  To quote myself: > The EU parliament is not the main legislative body in the EU. That would be the Commission. Furthermore the Council has roughly equal power to the Parliament. > Both the Commission and the Council are nationally controlled by the individual member states rather than directly elected. Of course it is still democracy because each national government is elected democratically. Accountability is somewhat lacking though.

gdfasfklshg4 8y ago

The EU parliament is not the main legislative body in the EU. That would be the Commission. Furthermore the Council has roughly equal power to the Parliament. Both the Commission and the Council are nationally controlled by the individual member states rather than directly elected.