3 ms·

I tried to use Matrix a while back, but I got put off when it asked me to agree to its Terms of Service... what kind of decentralised system has a terms of serv

I tried to use Matrix a while back, but I got put off when it asked me to agree to its Terms of Service... what kind of decentralised system has a terms of service? It's meant to serve the user, not the developer. I found Ricochet IM (https://ricochet.im/ https://ricochet.im/) to be much more to my taste. Your Ricochet ID is just a Tor hidden service, and when someone wants to chat to you their client connects to your Tor hidden service. Using Tor gets you encryption and onion-routing for free. That means anyone MITM'ing your network traffic can't tell who you're speaking to or what you're saying. It also gets NAT-traversal as a happy side effect.

deadbunny 8y ago
The Matirx ToS is for using (or federating to) their servers. You can setup your own homeserver and there is no ToS.
- Arathorn 8y ago
  Unfortunately it's illegal under GDPR to run a web service without telling users how their data is used and getting them to confirm they understand. We hate it too, but we have no choice. In future as Matrix becomes more P2P (like Ricochet) then this will go away, unless you choose to store your data on someone else's server. Most people are happy that we actually spent the time & effort to explain what happens to their data in Matrix (especially given it's unusual relative to a centralised service), and to do so in non-legalese. https://github.com/vector-im/policies/blob/master/docs/matrix-org/privacy_notice.md https://github.com/vector-im/policies/blob/master/docs/matri... is the doc in question fwiw.
hutzlibu 8y ago
"Using Tor gets you encryption and onion-routing for free." But not end-to-end encryption ... (unless Tor changed that?)
- jstanley 8y ago
  Tor is and has always been end-to-end encrypted. What do you mean? It's not encrypted between the Ricochet process and the Tor process (which is a point for potential improvement), but if you don't trust your local machine you've already lost.
  - hutzlibu 8y ago
    That would be news to me. Since when is the traffic leaving the exit node encrypted? (how could it be?) https://www.techrepublic.com/article/tor-users-do-not-expect-anonymity-and-end-to-end-security/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/tor-users-do-not-expect...
    - detaro 8y ago
      When talking to a hidden service, there is no exit node, and no traffic leaving the tor network.
      - hutzlibu 8y ago
        Ah yes, that is a different case.

deadbunny 8y ago

The Matirx ToS is for using (or federating to) their servers. You can setup your own homeserver and there is no ToS.

Arathorn 8y ago
Unfortunately it's illegal under GDPR to run a web service without telling users how their data is used and getting them to confirm they understand. We hate it too, but we have no choice. In future as Matrix becomes more P2P (like Ricochet) then this will go away, unless you choose to store your data on someone else's server. Most people are happy that we actually spent the time & effort to explain what happens to their data in Matrix (especially given it's unusual relative to a centralised service), and to do so in non-legalese. https://github.com/vector-im/policies/blob/master/docs/matrix-org/privacy_notice.md https://github.com/vector-im/policies/blob/master/docs/matri... is the doc in question fwiw.

hutzlibu 8y ago

"Using Tor gets you encryption and onion-routing for free." But not end-to-end encryption ... (unless Tor changed that?)

jstanley 8y ago
Tor is and has always been end-to-end encrypted. What do you mean? It's not encrypted between the Ricochet process and the Tor process (which is a point for potential improvement), but if you don't trust your local machine you've already lost.
- hutzlibu 8y ago
  That would be news to me. Since when is the traffic leaving the exit node encrypted? (how could it be?) https://www.techrepublic.com/article/tor-users-do-not-expect-anonymity-and-end-to-end-security/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/tor-users-do-not-expect...
  - detaro 8y ago
    When talking to a hidden service, there is no exit node, and no traffic leaving the tor network.
    - hutzlibu 8y ago
      Ah yes, that is a different case.