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I agree with you. I think we will see the Universal Basic Income appearing sooner rather than later. The economy needs a recycling mechanism and if it can't be

by Sytten 8y ago

I agree with you. I think we will see the Universal Basic Income appearing sooner rather than later. The economy needs a recycling mechanism and if it can't be through wages than it must take another form.

atemerev 8y ago
We won’t. Even for retirement schemes, there is not enough money; retirement age is rising, the future is bleak. UBI is basically a lifetime retirement scheme; it requires 10x more resources and completely unsustainable.
- mac01021 8y ago
  That depends what you mean by "enough money". If more than half of the population makes at least double what they need to keep themselves from starvation, then you could argue there is enough money. In short, your disagreement with the GP is probably due to a disagreement about the lifestyle that UBI is supposed to afford its recipients. Those in power might determine that the bare minimum UBI to avoid violent revolution is something like $5000 per year.
  - atemerev 8y ago
    Starvation is not a problem in the developed countries (and most of the developing world). Food is cheap. Housing, healthcare and education are the problems, but $5000 per year are not nearly enough for any of that.
    - mac01021 8y ago
      It's absolutely enough for housing if you squeeze in. Healthcare and education are problems, but I'm not sure they're enough to provoke a revolution when everyone is otherwise well-fed and sheltered from the elements.
nopriorarrests 8y ago
What I don't honestly understand is source of money for UBI appearing sooner rather than later. I mean, US is projected to have one trillion budget deficit for a second straight year - "US Deficit 2019: Treasury to Borrow $1 Trillion for 2nd Year - Bloomberg". Slap UBI on top of it and this is Greece trajectory.
- mac01021 8y ago
  Yes. Either we become Greece, or we tax earners enough to make up the difference. Neither of these seems pleasant, but if enough people are starving or homeless, it might be inevitable.

by Sytten 8y ago

atemerev 8y ago

We won’t. Even for retirement schemes, there is not enough money; retirement age is rising, the future is bleak. UBI is basically a lifetime retirement scheme; it requires 10x more resources and completely unsustainable.

mac01021 8y ago
That depends what you mean by "enough money". If more than half of the population makes at least double what they need to keep themselves from starvation, then you could argue there is enough money. In short, your disagreement with the GP is probably due to a disagreement about the lifestyle that UBI is supposed to afford its recipients. Those in power might determine that the bare minimum UBI to avoid violent revolution is something like $5000 per year.
- atemerev 8y ago
  Starvation is not a problem in the developed countries (and most of the developing world). Food is cheap. Housing, healthcare and education are the problems, but $5000 per year are not nearly enough for any of that.
  - mac01021 8y ago
    It's absolutely enough for housing if you squeeze in. Healthcare and education are problems, but I'm not sure they're enough to provoke a revolution when everyone is otherwise well-fed and sheltered from the elements.

nopriorarrests 8y ago

What I don't honestly understand is source of money for UBI appearing sooner rather than later. I mean, US is projected to have one trillion budget deficit for a second straight year - "US Deficit 2019: Treasury to Borrow $1 Trillion for 2nd Year - Bloomberg". Slap UBI on top of it and this is Greece trajectory.

mac01021 8y ago
Yes. Either we become Greece, or we tax earners enough to make up the difference. Neither of these seems pleasant, but if enough people are starving or homeless, it might be inevitable.