4 ms·

It's because there are so many trucks and SUVs which can completely obscure people (especially children) under 5 ft (~1.5 m) from their rear windows when they a

It's because there are so many trucks and SUVs which can completely obscure people (especially children) under 5 ft (~1.5 m) from their rear windows when they are too close to the vehicle because the vehicles are so high off the ground.

tptacek 8y ago
So this is required to sell new cars; it's not required to be street-legal, though, right? For instance: you can't sell a car in the US without both side-view mirrors, but you can drive a car without one of them.
- MrRadar 8y ago
  Yes, the safety equipment standards I listed are for new vehicles. Existing/used vehicles only need to comply with the standards that were in effect when they were new (and even then those standards are only enforced in the 15 states with mandatory safety inspections). The only exception I think is seatbelts since it's illegal to drive a car without wearing one in all but one state.
  - UncleEntity 8y ago
    > The only exception I think is seatbelts since it's illegal to drive a car without wearing one in all but one state. I know in Arizona if the car didn't originally come with seatbelts then you don't have to install them. Used to have a '53 Dodge that didn't have them and it was fine -- kind of freaked out my sister though...
    - toomanybeersies 8y ago
      To be fair, it is still reckless to drive an old car without seatbelts. Even more so than driving a newer car without seatbelts.
    - kbenson 8y ago
      Careful about relying on that, as while state law may not require you add safety equipment such as seat belts, county or city law might. I live in a location in California (which doesn't require seat belts in cars prior to 1965 that didn't originally sell with them), but the local laws require them to be present and utilized while any vehicle is in operation.
      - cr0sh 8y ago
        > Careful about relying on that, as while state law may not require you add safety equipment such as seat belts, county or city law might. We're talking Arizona. Here, you can get away with just about anything, and unless it's blatant, nobody really cares. Sometimes not even then.
        kevinmchugh 8y ago
        I recently was talking about protected left-hand turn patterns and remembered a trip to Arizona in the early 2000s. I remember my parents being initially cautious but quickly thrilled about protected left-hand turns coming after yellow lights and before red lights. It seems like it ought to reduce congestion and accidents. So I started looking into it, and I found that that isn't even an all-Arizona thing. Municipalities decide their own light patterns. Some places even change the pattern from morning to night coincide with commutes. I never did figure out if there were any safety or congestion benefits. I'm still shocked that that level of localism doesn't cause chaos.
        UncleEntity 8y ago
        Mostly just Scottsdale does that and it does cause a bit of confusion when people don't expect it and are playing with their phones but overall it's better since people don't clog up the left turn signal running the red.
ajmurmann 8y ago
Ideally this would have only targeted vehicles that have this problem. I wonder if they didn't want to disadvantage pick up trucks because they are pretty much exclusively made in the US due to existing burden on imported pick ups. I for one wish we could find a way to address the US pickup and SUV disease and encourage much smaller cars.
- ngngngng 8y ago
  I agree that it's a disease, but I believe it's simply a disease of luxury. Americans are wealthy enough to buy the most convenient car possible and afford the gas costs that go with it. I drive small cars and once in a while with passengers we feel cramped, or I have to borrow my dads truck to haul some wood for a project or some plants from the nursery.
  - ajmurmann 8y ago
    I think it must be more than that though. People in central and northern Europe have plenty of money as well and spend a fair amount on cars. Those cars tend to be very different though. You'll likely see more luxury sedans, tuned Golfs etc. Pickup trucks are almost entirely non-existent. Business would get a sprinter that actually keeps stuff dry. I think at least part of it is feeling unsafe in a sedan with these giant trucks around you. There also might be a uniquely American affection for that type of vehicle and the image that goes with it, as well as a ignorance for climate concerns. More often than not when I see a vehicle with a American flag on it it's a pickup and certainly never a Prius.
    - briandear 8y ago
      > ignorance for climate concerns. And the EU has demonstrated ignorance for actual air pollution. Their obsession for CO2 reduction has resulted in some of the worst air quality. Particulate and NO pollution is far more dangerous to human health than CO2. In trying to “save the world,” Europe has managed to poison itself through years of misguided policy objectives. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364032118300182 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S136403211...
Gibbon1 8y ago
My mom mentioned an old school way for a small child to die was to go out outside and play behind the car in the driveway. And then have daddy run them over backing out of the driveway. thump My own dad backed over my tricycle. Ever wonder why you only have automatic power windows on the drivers side? In the early sixties I had a second cousin strangled by one.
- lukevdp 8y ago
  That’s not old school, sadly it still happens all the time (running over toddlers)
  - Gibbon1 8y ago
    In the 60's people generally thought nothing of a 3 year old going out the front door by themselves. That's what I mean by old school. I have a van without out a back up camera, I'm slightly terrified of backing up because of small scampering children and short Asian grandma's. I've noted balloon cross overs have the same problem.
briandear 8y ago
When reversing a car like a Mustang, you can’t see what you are about to roll over either. The U.K. is apparently also considering mandatory backup cameras. It isn’t just a “truck” thing.

tptacek 8y ago

So this is required to sell new cars; it's not required to be street-legal, though, right? For instance: you can't sell a car in the US without both side-view mirrors, but you can drive a car without one of them.

MrRadar 8y ago
Yes, the safety equipment standards I listed are for new vehicles. Existing/used vehicles only need to comply with the standards that were in effect when they were new (and even then those standards are only enforced in the 15 states with mandatory safety inspections). The only exception I think is seatbelts since it's illegal to drive a car without wearing one in all but one state.
- UncleEntity 8y ago
  > The only exception I think is seatbelts since it's illegal to drive a car without wearing one in all but one state. I know in Arizona if the car didn't originally come with seatbelts then you don't have to install them. Used to have a '53 Dodge that didn't have them and it was fine -- kind of freaked out my sister though...
  - toomanybeersies 8y ago
    To be fair, it is still reckless to drive an old car without seatbelts. Even more so than driving a newer car without seatbelts.
  - kbenson 8y ago
    Careful about relying on that, as while state law may not require you add safety equipment such as seat belts, county or city law might. I live in a location in California (which doesn't require seat belts in cars prior to 1965 that didn't originally sell with them), but the local laws require them to be present and utilized while any vehicle is in operation.
    - cr0sh 8y ago
      > Careful about relying on that, as while state law may not require you add safety equipment such as seat belts, county or city law might. We're talking Arizona. Here, you can get away with just about anything, and unless it's blatant, nobody really cares. Sometimes not even then.
      - kevinmchugh 8y ago
        I recently was talking about protected left-hand turn patterns and remembered a trip to Arizona in the early 2000s. I remember my parents being initially cautious but quickly thrilled about protected left-hand turns coming after yellow lights and before red lights. It seems like it ought to reduce congestion and accidents. So I started looking into it, and I found that that isn't even an all-Arizona thing. Municipalities decide their own light patterns. Some places even change the pattern from morning to night coincide with commutes. I never did figure out if there were any safety or congestion benefits. I'm still shocked that that level of localism doesn't cause chaos.
        UncleEntity 8y ago
        Mostly just Scottsdale does that and it does cause a bit of confusion when people don't expect it and are playing with their phones but overall it's better since people don't clog up the left turn signal running the red.

ajmurmann 8y ago

Ideally this would have only targeted vehicles that have this problem. I wonder if they didn't want to disadvantage pick up trucks because they are pretty much exclusively made in the US due to existing burden on imported pick ups. I for one wish we could find a way to address the US pickup and SUV disease and encourage much smaller cars.

ngngngng 8y ago
I agree that it's a disease, but I believe it's simply a disease of luxury. Americans are wealthy enough to buy the most convenient car possible and afford the gas costs that go with it. I drive small cars and once in a while with passengers we feel cramped, or I have to borrow my dads truck to haul some wood for a project or some plants from the nursery.
- ajmurmann 8y ago
  I think it must be more than that though. People in central and northern Europe have plenty of money as well and spend a fair amount on cars. Those cars tend to be very different though. You'll likely see more luxury sedans, tuned Golfs etc. Pickup trucks are almost entirely non-existent. Business would get a sprinter that actually keeps stuff dry. I think at least part of it is feeling unsafe in a sedan with these giant trucks around you. There also might be a uniquely American affection for that type of vehicle and the image that goes with it, as well as a ignorance for climate concerns. More often than not when I see a vehicle with a American flag on it it's a pickup and certainly never a Prius.
  - briandear 8y ago
    > ignorance for climate concerns. And the EU has demonstrated ignorance for actual air pollution. Their obsession for CO2 reduction has resulted in some of the worst air quality. Particulate and NO pollution is far more dangerous to human health than CO2. In trying to “save the world,” Europe has managed to poison itself through years of misguided policy objectives. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364032118300182 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S136403211...

Gibbon1 8y ago

My mom mentioned an old school way for a small child to die was to go out outside and play behind the car in the driveway. And then have daddy run them over backing out of the driveway. thump My own dad backed over my tricycle. Ever wonder why you only have automatic power windows on the drivers side? In the early sixties I had a second cousin strangled by one.

lukevdp 8y ago
That’s not old school, sadly it still happens all the time (running over toddlers)
- Gibbon1 8y ago
  In the 60's people generally thought nothing of a 3 year old going out the front door by themselves. That's what I mean by old school. I have a van without out a back up camera, I'm slightly terrified of backing up because of small scampering children and short Asian grandma's. I've noted balloon cross overs have the same problem.

briandear 8y ago

When reversing a car like a Mustang, you can’t see what you are about to roll over either. The U.K. is apparently also considering mandatory backup cameras. It isn’t just a “truck” thing.