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For one, where sharing of data is concerned, none of this is about forcing Facebook to give your data to some random third party that asks for it. It is about y

For one, where sharing of data is concerned, none of this is about forcing Facebook to give your data to some random third party that asks for it. It is about you as a user being able to demand from Facebook that they make your data (or some selection of it) accessible to some third party of your choice. But also, and maybe more importantly, interoperation does not really necessarily require any sharing of data. Think the telephone network: All telephone network operators world wide do interoperate, which is why it doesn't matter where you are a customer, you still can call any other telephone on the planet. But that doesn't mean that those telcos somehow share data of their customers, apart from the particular calls that happen between customers of two different telcos. Also, one way in which Facebook could be forced to share data would be for migration to a different service: If you think Facebook is abusing your data, you could move to a different provider, and Facebook would have to allow them to pull your data over and then delete it on their side--and all that without you losing contact with people who stay on Facebook thanks to enforced interoperability.

stcredzero 8y ago
But also, and maybe more importantly, interoperation does not really necessarily require any sharing of data. DRM actually has a potential for societal good. We should make companies like Facebook subject to DRM around our data. DRM is subject to the same asymmetry as privacy. Privacy for individuals is a societal good, in contrast to governments and big public companies, which should be as transparent as possible. Likewise, DRM used by big companies and organizations against individuals is bad for individuals and societies. However, DRM used on behalf of individuals to protect them from big companies would be a societal good.
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
  Well, except it doesn't, because it necessarily either doesn't work or it is centrally controlled. What does help is simply encryption and decentralized services, no need for DRM.
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    Well, except it doesn't, because it necessarily either doesn't work or it is centrally controlled. Putting in another hoop for abusive corporations to jump through does have a function. There would be additional opportunities for whistleblowers to spot it happening, opening up the company to legal and regulatory action. Also, it wouldn't necessarily have to be centrally controlled. 3rd party companies could be hired to do the administration. What does help is simply encryption and decentralized services, no need for DRM. DRM could well be implemented as encryption and decentralized services.
    - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
      > Putting in another hoop for abusive corporations to jump through does have a function. There would be additional opportunities for whistleblowers to spot it happening, opening up the company to legal and regulatory action. Also, it wouldn't necessarily have to be centrally controlled. 3rd party companies could be hired to do the administration. In which case DRM doesn't do anything, but regulation and whistleblowers do? > DRM could well be implemented as encryption and decentralized services. How would that work? You don't have control over your own machine, but everyone else does?! DRM is the idea that your property has a function that controls what you can do with your property based on instructions from a third party ... who would that "decentralized third party"(?) be? And what would even be the point of that? I am not sure I even understand what kind of construction you have in mind that would qualify as DRM and also be useful for the end user in any way.
nopriorarrests 8y ago
>It is about you as a user being able to demand from Facebook that they make your data (or some selection of it) accessible to some third party of your choice. What's the point of making _my_ data accessible? AFAIR under GDPR facebook already can provide you all your data in downloadable form, at least if you are in EU. If we want to break Facebook network effect, you need much more. I, being early adopter, move to new service, called Bookface, and now I want to talk with my friends, who are still using FB. So I ask Bookface to connect to FB and suck the latest updates about these 1000 people, because they are my friends. Hmmm...
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
  Well, of course, this would be about real-time access, which is not something covered by GDPR, which would be the basis for interoperability. So, you could move to Bookface, and then your friends would have the option to allow Bookface access to their data on your behalf, in so far as they want to allow you to access it, in just the same way they would allow another user on Facebook to access it.
davidcbc 8y ago
How does your idea of interoperation work for the read flow? How do I see my friends posts on your Facebook competitor without their Facebook data being shared with that competitor?
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
  Obviously, you don't. The point is that it's your and their decision to make, not Facebook's or the competitor's.

stcredzero 8y ago

But also, and maybe more importantly, interoperation does not really necessarily require any sharing of data. DRM actually has a potential for societal good. We should make companies like Facebook subject to DRM around our data. DRM is subject to the same asymmetry as privacy. Privacy for individuals is a societal good, in contrast to governments and big public companies, which should be as transparent as possible. Likewise, DRM used by big companies and organizations against individuals is bad for individuals and societies. However, DRM used on behalf of individuals to protect them from big companies would be a societal good.

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
Well, except it doesn't, because it necessarily either doesn't work or it is centrally controlled. What does help is simply encryption and decentralized services, no need for DRM.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  Well, except it doesn't, because it necessarily either doesn't work or it is centrally controlled. Putting in another hoop for abusive corporations to jump through does have a function. There would be additional opportunities for whistleblowers to spot it happening, opening up the company to legal and regulatory action. Also, it wouldn't necessarily have to be centrally controlled. 3rd party companies could be hired to do the administration. What does help is simply encryption and decentralized services, no need for DRM. DRM could well be implemented as encryption and decentralized services.
  - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
    > Putting in another hoop for abusive corporations to jump through does have a function. There would be additional opportunities for whistleblowers to spot it happening, opening up the company to legal and regulatory action. Also, it wouldn't necessarily have to be centrally controlled. 3rd party companies could be hired to do the administration. In which case DRM doesn't do anything, but regulation and whistleblowers do? > DRM could well be implemented as encryption and decentralized services. How would that work? You don't have control over your own machine, but everyone else does?! DRM is the idea that your property has a function that controls what you can do with your property based on instructions from a third party ... who would that "decentralized third party"(?) be? And what would even be the point of that? I am not sure I even understand what kind of construction you have in mind that would qualify as DRM and also be useful for the end user in any way.

nopriorarrests 8y ago

>It is about you as a user being able to demand from Facebook that they make your data (or some selection of it) accessible to some third party of your choice. What's the point of making _my_ data accessible? AFAIR under GDPR facebook already can provide you all your data in downloadable form, at least if you are in EU. If we want to break Facebook network effect, you need much more. I, being early adopter, move to new service, called Bookface, and now I want to talk with my friends, who are still using FB. So I ask Bookface to connect to FB and suck the latest updates about these 1000 people, because they are my friends. Hmmm...

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
Well, of course, this would be about real-time access, which is not something covered by GDPR, which would be the basis for interoperability. So, you could move to Bookface, and then your friends would have the option to allow Bookface access to their data on your behalf, in so far as they want to allow you to access it, in just the same way they would allow another user on Facebook to access it.

davidcbc 8y ago

How does your idea of interoperation work for the read flow? How do I see my friends posts on your Facebook competitor without their Facebook data being shared with that competitor?

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
Obviously, you don't. The point is that it's your and their decision to make, not Facebook's or the competitor's.