4 ms·

I disagree on both counts. 1. Costs: I think the value of preventing a terrorist attack greatly outweighs the $76/passenger cost of screening. Besides, it cont

by credo 16y ago

I disagree on both counts. 1. Costs: I think the value of preventing a terrorist attack greatly outweighs the $76/passenger cost of screening. Besides, it contributes a lot of value to the economy by (a) reducing the long lines we have in our airports today and (b) eliminating the unnecessary intrusive procedures 2. Racial profiling: Behavioral profiling is not the same as racial profiling. Besides do you really think that the low-paid unskilled TSA workers don't currently do any racial profiling ?

nodata 16y ago
Can I ask how are you comparing costs here? 76 dollars per passenger is an obscene amount of money: look at the dollar totals. In terms of lives saved, the TSA is already a gigantic waste of money. You could save a lot more lives per dollar by doing hundreds of other different things.
- alex_c 16y ago
  $77 per passenger is a huge amount, especially compared to the cost of a cheap domestic flight. But what is the hidden cost of the clusterfuck that American airports are becoming? I would gladly pay an extra $38 per flight if it meant going through a sane, competent, and, if not pleasant, at least not overtly hostile system.
  - harisenbon 16y ago
    Why not even make it opt in? Ticket price plus a 38 dollar "treat me like a human being" tax. I'd pay it.
    - aberkowitz 16y ago
      What has it come to when we have to pay more, just to be treated as humans?
      - chopsueyar 16y ago
        Capitalism?
    - coderintherye 16y ago
      I'm pretty sure that is the idea behind the clear pass http://www.clearme.com/ http://www.clearme.com/
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
- orangecat 16y ago
  There about 620 million passengers in the US per year (http://www.transtats.bts.gov/ http://www.transtats.bts.gov/), which comes out to $47 billion. In government terms, not that enormous. In terms of lives saved, the TSA is already a gigantic waste of money. You could save a lot more lives per dollar by doing hundreds of other different things. No question. In fact, TSA has probably on balance killed people by encouraging marginal travelers to drive rather than fly. But on the assumption that the general public isn't going to be receptive to a rational cost/benefit analysis, I'd rather pay more for security that (1) might actually be effective, and (2) doesn't involve naked photographs or sexual assault.
  - nodata 16y ago
    I'd prefer to use the opportunity to highlight the fact the TSA security is ineffective and that we don't need this level of security, even if it did work. Raise awareness and spend the money properly.
yummyfajitas 16y ago
On 1), the average person's wage is about $21/hour. Even if the average airline passenger's hourly wage is double that, such a system will still need to reduce wait times by almost 2 hours to be cost effective. (Yes, I am making the dubious assumption that all time saved will be spent working. The economic benefits drop even further if you don't assume this.)
- Benjo 16y ago
  Half the people at the airport are working and the other half are buying things that are overpriced. If you think the economy isn't wringing the full value out of idle airport time, I have a Delta credit card application and a rental DVD player for you.
- Retric 16y ago
  I don't think the average airport taveler and the average american line up that well. Someone making 7$ an hour is going to fly far less than someone making 70$ an hour.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    That's why I doubled the average wage.
    - Retric 16y ago
      Yea, but I don't think doubling would be enough. Also the economic value of someone’s time is more than what they are paid. I get billed out 40 hours a week @ over 100$ an hour, but that does not end up in my paycheck. Granted reducing wait times is not going to get directly translated into extra working hours, but the current system also cost travelers more than just their time spent in line.
MichaelSalib 16y ago
do you really think that the low-paid unskilled TSA workers don't currently do any racial profiling I think they don't do much racial profiling. As a young guy of middle eastern descent with an obvious arabic surname, I've only rarely gotten extra screening. If the TSA were serious about racial profiling, I'd expect to get extra screening more than half the time I fly rather than on only 5-10% of trips.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
trop 16y ago
Flights from TLV are minimum hundreds of dollars to Europe, over a thousand to virtually anywhere else. So $76 (or $38) per passenger isn't a huge factor, compared to domestic-heavy bargain-biased U.S. airports. (Source: http://www.kayak.com/explore/#/TLV?a=any&d=any&fb=90,6490&l=any&ll=31.952162,34.804688&ns=n&s=0&t=-15,115&z=3 http://www.kayak.com/explore/#/TLV?a=any&d=any&fb=90..., which only shows one domestic choice, TLV to Eilat for $90 minimum)

by credo 16y ago

nodata 16y ago

Can I ask how are you comparing costs here? 76 dollars per passenger is an obscene amount of money: look at the dollar totals. In terms of lives saved, the TSA is already a gigantic waste of money. You could save a lot more lives per dollar by doing hundreds of other different things.

alex_c 16y ago
$77 per passenger is a huge amount, especially compared to the cost of a cheap domestic flight. But what is the hidden cost of the clusterfuck that American airports are becoming? I would gladly pay an extra $38 per flight if it meant going through a sane, competent, and, if not pleasant, at least not overtly hostile system.
- harisenbon 16y ago
  Why not even make it opt in? Ticket price plus a 38 dollar "treat me like a human being" tax. I'd pay it.
  - aberkowitz 16y ago
    What has it come to when we have to pay more, just to be treated as humans?
    - chopsueyar 16y ago
      Capitalism?
  - coderintherye 16y ago
    I'm pretty sure that is the idea behind the clear pass http://www.clearme.com/ http://www.clearme.com/
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
orangecat 16y ago
There about 620 million passengers in the US per year (http://www.transtats.bts.gov/ http://www.transtats.bts.gov/), which comes out to $47 billion. In government terms, not that enormous. In terms of lives saved, the TSA is already a gigantic waste of money. You could save a lot more lives per dollar by doing hundreds of other different things. No question. In fact, TSA has probably on balance killed people by encouraging marginal travelers to drive rather than fly. But on the assumption that the general public isn't going to be receptive to a rational cost/benefit analysis, I'd rather pay more for security that (1) might actually be effective, and (2) doesn't involve naked photographs or sexual assault.
- nodata 16y ago
  I'd prefer to use the opportunity to highlight the fact the TSA security is ineffective and that we don't need this level of security, even if it did work. Raise awareness and spend the money properly.

yummyfajitas 16y ago

On 1), the average person's wage is about $21/hour. Even if the average airline passenger's hourly wage is double that, such a system will still need to reduce wait times by almost 2 hours to be cost effective. (Yes, I am making the dubious assumption that all time saved will be spent working. The economic benefits drop even further if you don't assume this.)

Benjo 16y ago
Half the people at the airport are working and the other half are buying things that are overpriced. If you think the economy isn't wringing the full value out of idle airport time, I have a Delta credit card application and a rental DVD player for you.
Retric 16y ago
I don't think the average airport taveler and the average american line up that well. Someone making 7$ an hour is going to fly far less than someone making 70$ an hour.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  That's why I doubled the average wage.
  - Retric 16y ago
    Yea, but I don't think doubling would be enough. Also the economic value of someone’s time is more than what they are paid. I get billed out 40 hours a week @ over 100$ an hour, but that does not end up in my paycheck. Granted reducing wait times is not going to get directly translated into extra working hours, but the current system also cost travelers more than just their time spent in line.

MichaelSalib 16y ago

do you really think that the low-paid unskilled TSA workers don't currently do any racial profiling I think they don't do much racial profiling. As a young guy of middle eastern descent with an obvious arabic surname, I've only rarely gotten extra screening. If the TSA were serious about racial profiling, I'd expect to get extra screening more than half the time I fly rather than on only 5-10% of trips.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

trop 16y ago

Flights from TLV are minimum hundreds of dollars to Europe, over a thousand to virtually anywhere else. So $76 (or $38) per passenger isn't a huge factor, compared to domestic-heavy bargain-biased U.S. airports. (Source: http://www.kayak.com/explore/#/TLV?a=any&d=any&fb=90,6490&l=any&ll=31.952162,34.804688&ns=n&s=0&t=-15,115&z=3 http://www.kayak.com/explore/#/TLV?a=any&d=any&fb=90..., which only shows one domestic choice, TLV to Eilat for $90 minimum)