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I was writing about this last week here on HN; but decided to kill the comment as I felt maybe I was being too pessimistic/critical: I stated that FB has the T

by phlux 16y ago

I was writing about this last week here on HN; but decided to kill the comment as I felt maybe I was being too pessimistic/critical: I stated that FB has the Toys R Us business model: People are always producing kids; the internet always has new generations coming online. They are building for the COMING generations -- not the current. Another here on HN summed it up best: FB's new messaging platform is for those who think FB IS the internet. Additionally, this is further reason why I would not want/use a FB payment system. I dont want to have to be logged into FB / have an account on FB in order to pay something. We have all seen how maverick Zuck is with others' privacy... Disclaimer: I have never, nor shall I ever, had a FB account. I refuse to participate. While I see the value it provides others - I have been perfectly happy to not have had an account - and even gone as far as asking friends and girlfriends not to post pics or any other info about me to the site.

earnubs 16y ago
Just curious, if you've never had a Facebook account how can you have an informed opinion on their product? Personally, I can't stand Twitter, but I still have an account so I can poke about, see what's new (mostly because I have a professional interest in knowing what's going on in the world of UI development).
- jat850 16y ago
  Using a product is not an absolute requirement for forming an informed opinion on it. There is enough literature and information out there that one can casually gather an insight into how Facebook works, what their policies are, and empirical observations about how it is used/experienced by others around oneself.
  - jackvalentine 16y ago
    It is important to note however, that all that data gives you a very limited view of it. I like to think I know a fair bit about cars/motor racing, but I'm positive that the few times I've spoken to actual professionals I come off as a bit of a fanboy who only knows one side of it. I can know all the physiological effects of drug abuse, but I can't know what it is like to be a drug addict without being one... etc.
- phlux 16y ago
  I am very familiar with the site.. I just choose not to have an account. 98% of the people I know have accounts, and interestingly there is a group of people I know that are of the same mind as myself; have never had an account - and wont have an account. Additionally - they are all techies. So, I follow everything that FB does - I just wont create an account.
- chunkyslink 16y ago
  I'm in the same situation re not having an account. I work in web development and have had to integrate those disgusting 'like' buttons and examine closely the API for other jobs. All this led me to decide that Facebook is not for me.
gojomo 16y ago
There was a comment that struck me as a little odd, and a lot revealing, in the official Facebook announcement by Joel Seligstein (http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=452288242130 http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=452288242130): I'm intensely jealous of the next generation who will have something like Facebook for their whole lives. They will have the conversational history with the people in their lives all the way back to the beginning: From "hey nice to meet you" to "do you want to get coffee sometime" to "our kids have soccer practice at 6 pm tonight." That's a really cool idea. Cool, yes, but also a little spooky.
- phlux 16y ago
  And my fear over such a future, as a father of a 6-year old, is based on the track record they have with users' privacy. I don't want my child's privacy philosophy decided for her DEFACTO just because That's the way FB has always done it* Her idea of privacy should be an informed discernment based on her world view, not simply "Well this is just how it is".
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- angusgr 16y ago
  Privacy aside, have you ever tried to look something up from a few months ago, let alone (hypothetically) 20 years ago? This is one of my absolute dislikes with both Facebook and Twitter - you pile all your data in there, they keep it all and own it all, and make it a royal pain for you to get at it again - even just for simple things like "I wonder when I was in XYZ?" or "What was that link that Matt posted last year?".
  - izendejas 16y ago
    I assure you someone, more than likely Google, will one day develop this. Greplin could also position themselves in this space?
  - rendezvouscp 16y ago
    I think it can be a pain to get at the information at facebook.com and twitter.com, but both have APIs that make it relatively easy to pull out information. I haven’t seen a similar product for Facebook, but Tweet Nest (http://pongsocket.com/tweetnest/ http://pongsocket.com/tweetnest/) is a step in the right direction for Twitter. It makes it easy to download browse, and search your tweets on your own server. Here’s an example (my own tweets): http://chasenlehara.com/tweets/ http://chasenlehara.com/tweets/ [Note: I have no affiliation with Tweet Nest, I just really like it!]
dc2k08 16y ago
>They are building for the COMING generations I honestly believe that a period of stagnant growth awaits facebook in the not too distant future when a new generation will be reluctant to join as it will be that 'uncool website their parents use...to spy on them'.
- CamperBob 16y ago
  Unfortunately, the aversion to being spied-upon is also being bred out of the gene pool at a rapid pace.
  - ugh 16y ago
    Teenagers don’t care whether people who will not tell their parents (i.e. the overwhelming majority of people on Earth) know that they were drunk last night, they do care whether their parents know. I think that’s actually an important distinction.
- yters 16y ago
  Nah, I think the socializing aspect will outweigh the lack of privacy.
- phlux 16y ago
  >'uncool website their parents use...to spy on them' Thank you for showing me how to prevent my kid from joining: "Here I want you to make a facebook account so I can keep track of everything you do online and make sure you dont make any weird friends. I also want to check all your wall posts to see what you and your friends are saying. Here is your password."
  - corin_ 16y ago
    If your kid doesn't think to him/herself "fine, I'll make my own account" then they're either far too young to be on facebook or a moron.
angrycoder 16y ago
This is the internet. Facebook will be lucky if it survives past the current generation, much less generations. It was only a few years ago that myspace was all the rage. Its not my intent to bash Facebook, but things change so fast in ways not many can predict.
- rryyan 16y ago
  The internet is also relatively young. Is it not unreasonable that the pace of change might stabilize over time, and a few long-term players will emerge? What I'm saying is -- I don't think the internet itself is old enough that there enough precedent to predict how long a vastly influential internet company like Facebook might last. It's not unusual for companies to be many decades old -- why does it seem assumed that an internet company that is fairly new today won't be around in 30 years?
  - angrycoder 16y ago
    I don't doubt that some internet companies will be around in 30 years. I just don't know about facebook, because they are company based on social interaction. The way we interact with each other on the internet changes often. Right now, facebook is the rage with kids. That is fine when they are in middleschool and highschool. Honestly, I cannot fathom dragging around every friend and acquaintance I've made with me through my entire life. There's a reason why you loose touch with most of your friends after highschool.
    - phlux 16y ago
      >I just don't know about facebook, because they are company based on social interaction. The way we interact with each other on the internet changes often. That is the problem with their new messaging platform -- they are trying to mold the way we interact so as to keep users in their walled garden. This is a good, albeit spooky, move on their part. I wouldnt underestimate the strategery [sic] in this particular play -- especially given the assimilation of the recent goog defectors, including Maps and Wave creator.... This is not a short sighted effort on the part of FB. Sure, Zuck may have a lot of unlikeable qualities etc... but truly, he has done one thing better than any entrepreneur with the same level of skill; surround himself with really really (really rich) good advisors.
yters 16y ago
Better the devil you know than the devil you don't. We know next to nothing about internal Google, whereas we have a fairly good idea of internal Facebook.
- Groxx 16y ago
  Reductio ad absurdum: you'd prefer to have Hitler over that kid-who-looks-like-they-might-be-a-bully down the street. To both points: I respectfully disagree. We know very little about either, but FB has proven it cannot be trusted. Google has been pretty good so far, it's just a potential-looming-menace to Facebook's outright menace.
whimsy 16y ago
>I have never, nor shall I ever, had a FB account. My favorite thing about this development is that now you don't have to. If you have a friend who only communicates through Facebook, or primarily through Facebook, now you get to use e-mail to talk to them, and they get to use Facebook to talk to you. Everyone's happy. ... Unless they harvest data from your messages that sit on the FB system in your friend's inbox, of course.

by phlux 16y ago

earnubs 16y ago

Just curious, if you've never had a Facebook account how can you have an informed opinion on their product? Personally, I can't stand Twitter, but I still have an account so I can poke about, see what's new (mostly because I have a professional interest in knowing what's going on in the world of UI development).

jat850 16y ago
Using a product is not an absolute requirement for forming an informed opinion on it. There is enough literature and information out there that one can casually gather an insight into how Facebook works, what their policies are, and empirical observations about how it is used/experienced by others around oneself.
- jackvalentine 16y ago
  It is important to note however, that all that data gives you a very limited view of it. I like to think I know a fair bit about cars/motor racing, but I'm positive that the few times I've spoken to actual professionals I come off as a bit of a fanboy who only knows one side of it. I can know all the physiological effects of drug abuse, but I can't know what it is like to be a drug addict without being one... etc.
phlux 16y ago
I am very familiar with the site.. I just choose not to have an account. 98% of the people I know have accounts, and interestingly there is a group of people I know that are of the same mind as myself; have never had an account - and wont have an account. Additionally - they are all techies. So, I follow everything that FB does - I just wont create an account.
chunkyslink 16y ago
I'm in the same situation re not having an account. I work in web development and have had to integrate those disgusting 'like' buttons and examine closely the API for other jobs. All this led me to decide that Facebook is not for me.

gojomo 16y ago

There was a comment that struck me as a little odd, and a lot revealing, in the official Facebook announcement by Joel Seligstein (http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=452288242130 http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=452288242130): I'm intensely jealous of the next generation who will have something like Facebook for their whole lives. They will have the conversational history with the people in their lives all the way back to the beginning: From "hey nice to meet you" to "do you want to get coffee sometime" to "our kids have soccer practice at 6 pm tonight." That's a really cool idea. Cool, yes, but also a little spooky.

phlux 16y ago
And my fear over such a future, as a father of a 6-year old, is based on the track record they have with users' privacy. I don't want my child's privacy philosophy decided for her DEFACTO just because That's the way FB has always done it* Her idea of privacy should be an informed discernment based on her world view, not simply "Well this is just how it is".
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
angusgr 16y ago
Privacy aside, have you ever tried to look something up from a few months ago, let alone (hypothetically) 20 years ago? This is one of my absolute dislikes with both Facebook and Twitter - you pile all your data in there, they keep it all and own it all, and make it a royal pain for you to get at it again - even just for simple things like "I wonder when I was in XYZ?" or "What was that link that Matt posted last year?".
- izendejas 16y ago
  I assure you someone, more than likely Google, will one day develop this. Greplin could also position themselves in this space?
- rendezvouscp 16y ago
  I think it can be a pain to get at the information at facebook.com and twitter.com, but both have APIs that make it relatively easy to pull out information. I haven’t seen a similar product for Facebook, but Tweet Nest (http://pongsocket.com/tweetnest/ http://pongsocket.com/tweetnest/) is a step in the right direction for Twitter. It makes it easy to download browse, and search your tweets on your own server. Here’s an example (my own tweets): http://chasenlehara.com/tweets/ http://chasenlehara.com/tweets/ [Note: I have no affiliation with Tweet Nest, I just really like it!]

dc2k08 16y ago

>They are building for the COMING generations I honestly believe that a period of stagnant growth awaits facebook in the not too distant future when a new generation will be reluctant to join as it will be that 'uncool website their parents use...to spy on them'.

CamperBob 16y ago
Unfortunately, the aversion to being spied-upon is also being bred out of the gene pool at a rapid pace.
- ugh 16y ago
  Teenagers don’t care whether people who will not tell their parents (i.e. the overwhelming majority of people on Earth) know that they were drunk last night, they do care whether their parents know. I think that’s actually an important distinction.
yters 16y ago
Nah, I think the socializing aspect will outweigh the lack of privacy.
phlux 16y ago
>'uncool website their parents use...to spy on them' Thank you for showing me how to prevent my kid from joining: "Here I want you to make a facebook account so I can keep track of everything you do online and make sure you dont make any weird friends. I also want to check all your wall posts to see what you and your friends are saying. Here is your password."
- corin_ 16y ago
  If your kid doesn't think to him/herself "fine, I'll make my own account" then they're either far too young to be on facebook or a moron.

angrycoder 16y ago

This is the internet. Facebook will be lucky if it survives past the current generation, much less generations. It was only a few years ago that myspace was all the rage. Its not my intent to bash Facebook, but things change so fast in ways not many can predict.

rryyan 16y ago
The internet is also relatively young. Is it not unreasonable that the pace of change might stabilize over time, and a few long-term players will emerge? What I'm saying is -- I don't think the internet itself is old enough that there enough precedent to predict how long a vastly influential internet company like Facebook might last. It's not unusual for companies to be many decades old -- why does it seem assumed that an internet company that is fairly new today won't be around in 30 years?
- angrycoder 16y ago
  I don't doubt that some internet companies will be around in 30 years. I just don't know about facebook, because they are company based on social interaction. The way we interact with each other on the internet changes often. Right now, facebook is the rage with kids. That is fine when they are in middleschool and highschool. Honestly, I cannot fathom dragging around every friend and acquaintance I've made with me through my entire life. There's a reason why you loose touch with most of your friends after highschool.
  - phlux 16y ago
    >I just don't know about facebook, because they are company based on social interaction. The way we interact with each other on the internet changes often. That is the problem with their new messaging platform -- they are trying to mold the way we interact so as to keep users in their walled garden. This is a good, albeit spooky, move on their part. I wouldnt underestimate the strategery [sic] in this particular play -- especially given the assimilation of the recent goog defectors, including Maps and Wave creator.... This is not a short sighted effort on the part of FB. Sure, Zuck may have a lot of unlikeable qualities etc... but truly, he has done one thing better than any entrepreneur with the same level of skill; surround himself with really really (really rich) good advisors.

yters 16y ago

Better the devil you know than the devil you don't. We know next to nothing about internal Google, whereas we have a fairly good idea of internal Facebook.

Groxx 16y ago
Reductio ad absurdum: you'd prefer to have Hitler over that kid-who-looks-like-they-might-be-a-bully down the street. To both points: I respectfully disagree. We know very little about either, but FB has proven it cannot be trusted. Google has been pretty good so far, it's just a potential-looming-menace to Facebook's outright menace.

whimsy 16y ago

>I have never, nor shall I ever, had a FB account. My favorite thing about this development is that now you don't have to. If you have a friend who only communicates through Facebook, or primarily through Facebook, now you get to use e-mail to talk to them, and they get to use Facebook to talk to you. Everyone's happy. ... Unless they harvest data from your messages that sit on the FB system in your friend's inbox, of course.